Flight Planning System
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flight Planning System
Hi All,
We are in the look out for a new flight planning system. We are currently looking at Jepp, Navtec, PPS and FFIDS. Existing users please comment on your user experience, this would be really helpful in our evaluation.
We are in the look out for a new flight planning system. We are currently looking at Jepp, Navtec, PPS and FFIDS. Existing users please comment on your user experience, this would be really helpful in our evaluation.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are a few old threads that ask this same question from time to time. A few pre-questions you need to consider:
1. What is the scope of your operation; if simple CONUS point to point you can flight plan very simply.
2. Do you have any special requirements like tanking or firebombing? (never know!)
Otherwise if your needs are basic I can advise:
a. If you have the budget Jetplanner is probably the leader. Its strengths are its accuracy and features; its weaknesses are - IMO - lots of buttons to fiddle with, weak crew interface (unless its improved), and the customer interface is 'okay' but not great.
b. I've used PPS for years and it's pretty good. It's strengths are its simplicity compared to Jepp and it has a nice DIY crew interface; it's weaknesses are I don't ever quite seem to be able to get the performance that Jepp seems to get - case in point being a Global 5000 profile that we just can't quite seem to get to tweak to get performance equivalent to a Jepp version. That said, there are fewer PPS staff and so you normally get small company interest. (In the case of the Global above the user can tweak the aircraft profile manually, albeit its a dark art, but Jepp don't let you...as far as I know).
There are others on the market; I hear good things about Rocket Route and ARINC were bringing something onto the market a while ago - it's biggest issue when I saw it in 2013 was they hadn't given much thought to non-US operations.
my 2c
1. What is the scope of your operation; if simple CONUS point to point you can flight plan very simply.
2. Do you have any special requirements like tanking or firebombing? (never know!)
Otherwise if your needs are basic I can advise:
a. If you have the budget Jetplanner is probably the leader. Its strengths are its accuracy and features; its weaknesses are - IMO - lots of buttons to fiddle with, weak crew interface (unless its improved), and the customer interface is 'okay' but not great.
b. I've used PPS for years and it's pretty good. It's strengths are its simplicity compared to Jepp and it has a nice DIY crew interface; it's weaknesses are I don't ever quite seem to be able to get the performance that Jepp seems to get - case in point being a Global 5000 profile that we just can't quite seem to get to tweak to get performance equivalent to a Jepp version. That said, there are fewer PPS staff and so you normally get small company interest. (In the case of the Global above the user can tweak the aircraft profile manually, albeit its a dark art, but Jepp don't let you...as far as I know).
There are others on the market; I hear good things about Rocket Route and ARINC were bringing something onto the market a while ago - it's biggest issue when I saw it in 2013 was they hadn't given much thought to non-US operations.
my 2c
I will agree with a few of Dallas's points...
But..
What size fleet do you have?
What types do you fly? Heavies, Widebodies, BizJet?
Schedule or Charter?
What is your area of operations?
Do you fly ETOPS?
The list goes on...
If you are a small operation with a couple if Bizjets, then maybe PPS could be the way forward for you. If you are flying something bigger or have a more complex operations set up, then I would look at one of the bigboys on the market.
As Dallas said, Jepps is the market leader. They may appear more expensive at first than say LIDO or NavTech, but the devil is always in the detail and some providers do have extra hidden costs, which in the long run it will work out more expensive. In a nutshell, What do you want? a Flight Planning system akin Mercedes that gives you reliabilty, technical expertese and support or one like a Reliant Robin that flips onto its side the first sign of a fast corner
But..
What size fleet do you have?
What types do you fly? Heavies, Widebodies, BizJet?
Schedule or Charter?
What is your area of operations?
Do you fly ETOPS?
The list goes on...
If you are a small operation with a couple if Bizjets, then maybe PPS could be the way forward for you. If you are flying something bigger or have a more complex operations set up, then I would look at one of the bigboys on the market.
As Dallas said, Jepps is the market leader. They may appear more expensive at first than say LIDO or NavTech, but the devil is always in the detail and some providers do have extra hidden costs, which in the long run it will work out more expensive. In a nutshell, What do you want? a Flight Planning system akin Mercedes that gives you reliabilty, technical expertese and support or one like a Reliant Robin that flips onto its side the first sign of a fast corner
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Dallas/plans123,
Than you very much for your feedback. We are operating all airbus family, ETOPS, multi sector tankering. We did explore PPS but found it not very suitable for our ops. Also we heard feed back that Navtec is facing major issue with their NAVDB over Europe. Any insight on this? And any rough ideal on their pricing. All we know is that Lido is quite expensive compared to the rest.
Than you very much for your feedback. We are operating all airbus family, ETOPS, multi sector tankering. We did explore PPS but found it not very suitable for our ops. Also we heard feed back that Navtec is facing major issue with their NAVDB over Europe. Any insight on this? And any rough ideal on their pricing. All we know is that Lido is quite expensive compared to the rest.
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Wherever my current employers wish to send me !!
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LIDO may be expensive but, IMO, it's the very best on the market (Just look at their customer database !).
To be fair, all of the other systems mentioned on here will do the job, but you can tailor LIDO to your own needs.
My advice is, hang the expense and go with the Germans. It will save you money in the long run just on the fuel planning alone.
To be fair, all of the other systems mentioned on here will do the job, but you can tailor LIDO to your own needs.
My advice is, hang the expense and go with the Germans. It will save you money in the long run just on the fuel planning alone.
i've had exposure to both Lido and Jepps in an Operations environment, and tbh.. i'd go with Jepps. i found Lido to be very rule based indeed (typical german ) and not that flexible with a lot of hidden costs. The user experience of flight planning with it was quite pedestrian as well and not very intuitive.
) and not that flexible with a lot of hidden costs. The user experience of flight planning with it was quite pedestrian as well and not very intuitive.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Singapore
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Guys,
PPS seems to be using a generic aircraft performance database. Any idea whats the source of this data. If you want to add your own perf data its a separate charge per aircraft type.
PPS seems to be using a generic aircraft performance database. Any idea whats the source of this data. If you want to add your own perf data its a separate charge per aircraft type.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 734
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Anoop
The user can tweak their profiles, but it's a bit of a dark art and I'm not totally convinced it can ever work as well as Jepp. For example, we can get one of our Globals within 200lbs burn over an 8-hour leg, but that's normal M085 setting. Where we struggle is getting a convincing performace at, say, M082, or for anything longer than 8-hours fullstop because the stock profiles aren't - as far as I can see - up to it.
Case in point was one of our partners squeezing 11-ish hours out of a GL5T using Jepp, whereas we couldn't get anywhere near using PPS. That's the difference IMO, but for day-to-day (and probably airline schedules) I think it would be fine unless you're operating on the edges of performance.
My 2c
The user can tweak their profiles, but it's a bit of a dark art and I'm not totally convinced it can ever work as well as Jepp. For example, we can get one of our Globals within 200lbs burn over an 8-hour leg, but that's normal M085 setting. Where we struggle is getting a convincing performace at, say, M082, or for anything longer than 8-hours fullstop because the stock profiles aren't - as far as I can see - up to it.
Case in point was one of our partners squeezing 11-ish hours out of a GL5T using Jepp, whereas we couldn't get anywhere near using PPS. That's the difference IMO, but for day-to-day (and probably airline schedules) I think it would be fine unless you're operating on the edges of performance.
My 2c
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Various at the moment
Posts: 1,174
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes
on
1 Post
PPS uses data from the manufacture's AFM. From the generic data file, the user can make adjustments to suit their needs. There is no charge for that because the user does it himself. If you want PPS to make the file, they will charge you and why not !
There is nothing difficult about using the PPS system.
There is nothing difficult about using the PPS system.
