Flight/Ground Ops, Crewing and DispatchA forum for the people who are engaged in operational control/flight dispatch/crewing and their colleagues airside in ramp dispatch, load control and ground handling, to discuss issues directly related to keeping their aircrew and aircraft operational.
This morning a Swissport baggage loading truck was driven under a Monarch A321 at BHX and promptly wedged itself whilst also hitting the nose gear. Sadly for Monarch, the damage looks bad, with damage to both the nose gear (which is now at a strange angle) and fuselage (not just the skin but also structural damage). Not a good situation...
Last edited by tom775257 : 6th October 2008 at 20:52.
The A321 in question is G-OZBE which as you say has been quite badly damaged seen the photos but didnt get chance to go over and have a look for myself. It was hit by a belt loader just after 0600 this morning the driver said the brakes failed. Aircraft is likely to be grounded for several weeks
"The brakes failed" That old chestnut. I witnessed 2 similar incidents whilst i was on a secondment at Heathrow. Equipmenmt failure was blamed by the drivers but after investigations it was proved it was driver error. Is the a/c over the w/a?
That's why there is a standing instruction (where I work) that you need to test the brakes 3 times before approaching any aircraft. I know that it's possible that they could fail on their 4th application, but I'm still amazed how this can happen.
The aircraft is now over on the Western Apron as we were unable to tow it till the follwing day because the nose leg had taken the brunt of the knock and it all had to be inspected before it could be moved. As to the brake failiure the jury is out pending the investagation but my money is on driver error
A/c now in LTN. Was speaking to one of the engineers earlier and the bill for getting it fit to position down was huge, never mind the cost of fixing it. If it is proved to be negligence don't Swissport have to pick up the bill instead of the insurance
And I bet everyone (where you work) carries out a brake test 3 times.
Anyone got pictures, so we can make sensible comments!!!
It was a sensible comment. It's a basic rule (whether anyone does it or not is irrelevant). It's a rule at BHX. Basically....'The brakes failed' is a failed argument.
Spoke to a MON engineer the other night who tells me BE could be in the hanger for some time. Airbus are still working out how to fix it, apparently they never anticipated the nose gear being hit at speed by a beltloader
Have seen the pictures today and the nosewheel is a mess. The idiot driving the belt loader was apparently standing up while driving due to a wet seat. (apparently)
Standing up on a beltloader due to wet seat .......OMG........and Im guessing he must have set the hand throttle a little to much and had no chance of braking............"idiot"
So there's not a "no blame" arrangement for incidents like this?
I know it's an extreme in this case, but maybe the next guy who knocks something accidently might keep quiet and not tell anyone, the damage not noticed on the walkaround, and then..
The current thinking is that in no-blame cultures even recklessness and incompetence gets excused as reporting is a get out of jail free card. The results is that the reporting scheme is seen as a confessional for the guilty rather than a learning mechanism for the diligent.
In the land of the 5th Amendment, the FAA voluntary ASAP is a variation on this theme, a sort of super grass witness protection scheme that actually reduces the chances of true open reporting because no one wants to say anything to anyone without protection.
The idea is that a 'just culture' where people are still accountable for their behaviour but the organisation tolerates genuine errors, and supports the individual rather than disciplining them in all but the most extreme cases.
What stands out in the posts above is that some people seem happy with the concept of automatic blame of a 'stupid' ground handler based on alleged leaked hearsay in a way they would not accept for a pilot. The same accountability standards need to apply to all for the same reasons. Perhaps some people can see the biggest threat to reporting in the mirror...
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Yeh right.
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