Valsan/Rohr/Goodrich 727 conversion question
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Valsan/Rohr/Goodrich 727 conversion question
I'm looking for a definitive answer to a question that I have had for more than 10 years now. I've been flying a Super 727 (STC SA4363NM) for more than ten years now (actually three different airplanes), and a common question keeps rearing its ugly head regarding Stage III compliance.
The Rohr AFM supplement lists noise levels for landing 30 (flaps 40 was blocked off with the STC) and for a 5 flap takeoff (only!). Now, does this mean that the Super 727 is Stage III compliant ONLY in the flap 5 takeoff configuration?
At first, I was told by a Rohr engineer that they only tested the noise levels using flaps 5 because that was the most restrictive (read; noisiest) takeoff configuration, and flaps 15 and flaps 25 were well below (flyover?) Stage III limits, but he didn't have any documentation to prove this. Recently, however, I was informed by an airport noise officer that the only approved takeoff configuration that meets the Stage III compliance is for flaps 5. IOW, flaps 15 and flaps 25 did NOT meet Stage III requirements.
I don't even know who to contact anymore to find out which is accurate. I thought that perhaps one of the professionals in here might have some actual documentation saying which is accurate.
Until I find out, I'm going to do flaps 5 takeoffs, but even though the performance numbers (from ASAP, Inc.) show a flap five takeoff is doable, I'm not as comfortable with the remaining runway at V1/Vr as I am when doing flaps 15 departures. Second segment climb is not compromised by using flaps 15 with the -217C engines.
Thanks!
The Rohr AFM supplement lists noise levels for landing 30 (flaps 40 was blocked off with the STC) and for a 5 flap takeoff (only!). Now, does this mean that the Super 727 is Stage III compliant ONLY in the flap 5 takeoff configuration?
At first, I was told by a Rohr engineer that they only tested the noise levels using flaps 5 because that was the most restrictive (read; noisiest) takeoff configuration, and flaps 15 and flaps 25 were well below (flyover?) Stage III limits, but he didn't have any documentation to prove this. Recently, however, I was informed by an airport noise officer that the only approved takeoff configuration that meets the Stage III compliance is for flaps 5. IOW, flaps 15 and flaps 25 did NOT meet Stage III requirements.
I don't even know who to contact anymore to find out which is accurate. I thought that perhaps one of the professionals in here might have some actual documentation saying which is accurate.
Until I find out, I'm going to do flaps 5 takeoffs, but even though the performance numbers (from ASAP, Inc.) show a flap five takeoff is doable, I'm not as comfortable with the remaining runway at V1/Vr as I am when doing flaps 15 departures. Second segment climb is not compromised by using flaps 15 with the -217C engines.
Thanks!
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My first thought is are you identifying yourself correctly?
Rohr produced a FAA Stage 3 Type Designator Notice for STC SA4363NM
FAA Publication N7110.183 established the "B72Q" as the type for all stage 3 model aircraft operating in the US.
I have seen a few enter 727RE, 727REW plus other variations as designators and this can cause a few issues
See Rohr Operator Service Letter OSL-727RE-025
Questions or concerns regarding this subject the contact is below not sure if they are still good as they are quite a few years old now and I haven't played with an REW in anger since 2007:
Juan Cortes
Fleet Manager 727 REW Programme
619-691-2935
[email protected]
Rohr produced a FAA Stage 3 Type Designator Notice for STC SA4363NM
FAA Publication N7110.183 established the "B72Q" as the type for all stage 3 model aircraft operating in the US.
I have seen a few enter 727RE, 727REW plus other variations as designators and this can cause a few issues
See Rohr Operator Service Letter OSL-727RE-025
Questions or concerns regarding this subject the contact is below not sure if they are still good as they are quite a few years old now and I haven't played with an REW in anger since 2007:
Juan Cortes
Fleet Manager 727 REW Programme
619-691-2935
[email protected]
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Thanks for your reply. I'm not sure what you are saying here. The FAA designation on our ICAO flight plans read "B721/M-SDFGHIRWXYZ/S".
The STC is listed as SA4363NM in the AFM. It has two -217C engines in 1 and 3, and a -9A in the #2 position. WSI winglets and the Dougan (sp?) droop. The STC is 'owned' by BF Goodrich. I contacted them about a year ago, but they had no idea what I was asking.
Would you have a link to the Rohr service letter?
Is the contact you listed still good? I'd love to speak with someone who is familiar with the STC.
Thanks!
The STC is listed as SA4363NM in the AFM. It has two -217C engines in 1 and 3, and a -9A in the #2 position. WSI winglets and the Dougan (sp?) droop. The STC is 'owned' by BF Goodrich. I contacted them about a year ago, but they had no idea what I was asking.
Would you have a link to the Rohr service letter?
Is the contact you listed still good? I'd love to speak with someone who is familiar with the STC.
Thanks!
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According to the FAA Publication you should file as
B72Q/M-SDFGHIRWXYZ/S Not B721/M-SDFGHIRWXYZ/S
its that that makes you the stage III and differentiates for want of a better term from the Fed Ex & Raisbeck Stg III Mod. PM me your email and I'll send the OSL over. In fact I'll send you them all its about 3.5 mb
Ernie Loake was the 'God' on the installations but he has long retired now, I think they brought him back just to cover the last kit Installation. If you have flow 3 of these puppies then our paths have crossed if not bloody close.
B72Q/M-SDFGHIRWXYZ/S Not B721/M-SDFGHIRWXYZ/S
its that that makes you the stage III and differentiates for want of a better term from the Fed Ex & Raisbeck Stg III Mod. PM me your email and I'll send the OSL over. In fact I'll send you them all its about 3.5 mb
Ernie Loake was the 'God' on the installations but he has long retired now, I think they brought him back just to cover the last kit Installation. If you have flow 3 of these puppies then our paths have crossed if not bloody close.
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Again, thanks for your input.
That FAA Order was superseded (recently). The new order is here:
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...er_7360.1_.pdf
Page A21 of this order indicates that "B721" is still an accurate identifies for a stage 3 B727-100, although it appears that the designation "R721" (page A128) is more accurate.
I just attempted to contact Juan Cortes via the email you provided earlier (again, thank you!) but it was bounced back to me as not deliverable as addressed.
I will PM you my email straight away.
Dave
That FAA Order was superseded (recently). The new order is here:
http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...er_7360.1_.pdf
Page A21 of this order indicates that "B721" is still an accurate identifies for a stage 3 B727-100, although it appears that the designation "R721" (page A128) is more accurate.
I just attempted to contact Juan Cortes via the email you provided earlier (again, thank you!) but it was bounced back to me as not deliverable as addressed.
I will PM you my email straight away.
Dave
Per the FAA's Regulatory and Guidance Library website, (rgl.faa.gov) that STC is now owned by:
This certificate issued to:
Rohr Inc
STC Holder's Address:
850 Lagoon Drive
Chula Vista CA 91910-2098
United States
This certificate issued to:
Rohr Inc
STC Holder's Address:
850 Lagoon Drive
Chula Vista CA 91910-2098
United States
