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Engineers & Technicians In this day and age of increased CRM and safety awareness, a forum for the guys and girls who keep our a/c servicable.


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Old 20th April 2009, 17:21   #41 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Agreed. My point is, "highly regarded" is a moot point. Highly regarded by whom, willy waivers?
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Old 20th April 2009, 17:47   #42 (permalink)
 
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Im not a engineer, i couldnt pass a technical exam A@ P or otherwise to save my life, however i do know a bit about engineer recruitment and i do know that for whatever reasons engineers holding the A@P qualification are deemed by employers to be less qualified that those holding certain other licences the general consesus is A@P holders are classed as "mechanics" whilst for eg holders of CAA licences are seen as "engineers "all seems a bit strange to me but thats how it is.
Further one thing i can say is EASA licence holders(and CASA) especially if UK or German issued in the B1 AND B2 cat with type ratings attract a higher renumeration genearally than A@P holders, again whether that is justified or not i could not say
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Old 20th April 2009, 22:51   #43 (permalink)
 
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With thanks to Harry Hill

The thing is, I like A & P Mechanics, but I also like B1 Engineers.

But which is best?





There's only one way to find out.





FIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!
TURIN is offline   Reply
Old 20th April 2009, 23:25   #44 (permalink)
 
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Dont know how old you are Turin!!!

But you definitely need growing up!!!
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Old 20th April 2009, 23:34   #45 (permalink)
 
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It does seem that most jobs advertised outside of North America are for EASA licence holders and not for A&P . I have often toyed with the idea of doing an A&P as well but it always seems to come back to the above reason that I can't seem to justify the time and expence of doing it !

On a slight tangent , I have heard a rumour (pprune after all !) that the CAA are looking to go back to the old BCAR system because of the lack of a level playing field between EASA member states and the way they issue licences: re comment above about Spain and we've all heard about the French !! Anyone else heard the same ?????????
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Old 20th April 2009, 23:38   #46 (permalink)
 
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Oh dear! Sense of humour failure Mrfixer?
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Old 20th April 2009, 23:42   #47 (permalink)
 
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Nothing to do with failure of sense of Humour matey!!! but sometimes these stupid remarks and comments just doesnt help the guy who is genuinely asking for help or need some genuine info !!! Thats all!!!
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Old 20th April 2009, 23:48   #48 (permalink)
 
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If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.

Go and have a bevvy old chap, life's too short.

Goodnight.
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Old 20th April 2009, 23:58   #49 (permalink)
 
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Now dont pretend you were trying to be funny here!!! If u wanna be funny, go and join some circus somewhere!!! If you cant be useful to somebody atleast dont try and show how useless you are!!! Try and sleep over it!! Might grow up by tomm morning!!!
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Old 21st April 2009, 10:23   #50 (permalink)
 
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Actually its not just the basic licence qualification thats dumbed down its the same with the type courses, i did FAA approved a300 course with fed ex it was a joke, three weeks and that covered everything, avionics engines airframe it was like something a first year apprentice would do, compare that to the twelve weeks plus you would spend doing a CAA approved course to cover the b1 and b2 subjects and to top it all the exam was open book !complete farce from start to finish. i think the whole thing goes back to the fact aircraft mechs are considered to be semi skilled in the states at best and the whole licence and training system reflects that standard
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Old 21st April 2009, 10:42   #51 (permalink)
 
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A&P, Hmmm. Apply and pass.
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Old 21st April 2009, 12:57   #52 (permalink)
 
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Hmm... It might well be worth looking at what the NAA's expect of
their own LAE's, AMT's or LAME's that work or qualify under regulations.
The FAA A&P has not really altered much in over 40 years. So much
technology including many materials & practices have evolved in that time.

Implementation of FAR 66 failed apparently due to the objection of US MRO's Workers Unions if I'm correct?

There is a relatively new NBAA initiative to enhance the training and qualification of all FAA AMTs. How much support they will gain from
the US MRO industry (or the FAA even) appears unknown.

http://www.nbaa.com/prodev/bootstrap/whitepaper.pdf

If it enhances the training, standards and prospects of the AMT,
I support it fully. But, it will need bigger FAA AMT staff inputs to succeed.

In my career so far, I've been in a good position to assess many FAA/EASA/CASA aircraft maintenance certifiers based on their true competences, maintenance standards, attention to the finer details and importantly, attitude. I won't go into how some of these amusing clowns percieve good team building and demonstrative leadership.

There have been equal numbers of FAR65 A&P AMTs and EASA Part66 LAEs whose standards have been far less than basics the NAA demands.
Many of these likely gained qualification merely on attendance or repeated use of Q&A 'Study Guides' , not effort or merit. It is far too evident when
working with such individuals to deny..

The FAA/SWA B737 AD business was compounded by a local (and
cozy) team of FAA inspectors that granted permission for AD extension...
Clearly unnacceptable, this has since been dealt with. I am also aware
of many more serious issues with the FAA, not least the laziness and
makeup of the FAA AFS-300 Mechanic Licensing Dept at Oklahoma.
Very little can be acheived communicating from the outside of a licensing Dept run largely by college graduates with limited comprehension of current AMT duties. Limited concept of international licensing initiatives & developments also a big factor in the unwillingness of the FAA to maintain
equivalence.

As for EASA/UKCAA? The 20+ British Airways Engineering line station FAA AMTs that were granted restricted EASA Part66 B1.1s by the UKCAA without additional examination on the basis of required EASA regulation conversion reports (THAT ACTUALLY DO NOT EXIST -UKCAA/EASA confirmed) continue to certify EASA registered aircraft to this day. As stated before, these EASA Part 66 Licences have no official conversion report - what would the fallout be if those licences were withdrawn???
Keep up the pressure ALAE 1981.

I think the EASA Part 66 AML is here to stay until events (holes in ground)
prove otherwise. The 'B' licences I think will merge ultimately, which is academically far larger than the A&P syllabus. The 'B' AML holders will then operate as 'A&C' or 'Avionics' under that AML. Existing B1/B2 combined AML holders work to this today at my company, mostly operating in 'A&C' or 'Avionics' capacities. Very very few are comfortable with the entire scope of both present B1/B2 AML's but will happily take the money.. Thats of course to be expected!

Solid training & practical skillsets amongst all NAA's certifying staff will need to improve as aircraft technology evolves, simple. With thorough training, attested practical experience & a decent Oral/Practical examination (This should return for EASA Part 66, make no mistake)
comes good standards.

BAE 146
Avionic Tech
FAA AMT

P.S. MrFixer, I'm certain Turin was having a laugh, I had a chuckle
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Old 21st April 2009, 18:00   #53 (permalink)
 
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in newzeland caa website you can see that all licences can be convert to caa licence by giving few papers but its clearly mention that faa a+p is not accepted to convert. and can a single person hold B1/B2 ?its not with icao licence u can have either A&C or avionics licence.
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Old 21st April 2009, 18:10   #54 (permalink)
 
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We have people with B1/B2 and we used to have guys with A&C and multi x under the BCAR system .
(bit off subject it and it may be a sign of the times but more and more people are requesting if possible that applicants hold a EASA licence issued by the UK CAA.)

Last edited by simonchowder : 21st April 2009 at 18:31.
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Old 21st April 2009, 21:54   #55 (permalink)
 
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Bae146.

That is the most accurate and honest assesment of the current situation I have ever read. Bravo.


Oh, and the bit about Licensing was quite nice too.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 16:10   #56 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Im not a engineer, i couldnt pass a technical exam A@ P or otherwise to save my life
Take it from me, I hold (or have held) BCAR Section L, UK CAA EASA Part 66 and FAA A+P, you do not need to be an engineer or possess much technical knowledge to pass the A+P exam, you need to show it to SIT the exam but once you get that far its just a memory test.....
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Old 22nd April 2009, 16:49   #57 (permalink)
 
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ASKFAP

You possibly might have a different take on the FAA A&P when
it's the first AML in your career (As it was mine). I went to the USA
studied up (nearly 2 years), practically experienced, prepared and well read within the required syllabus as per the FAR system.

I've already detailed a few major flaws with the FAA A&P, hopefully this
will change for the better because it needs to. It is worth remembering
many FAA AMTs (IA's and otherwise) work tirelessly in the US and around the world in equivalent positions to your own with similar if not identical certification responsibilities.

Better LAE/AMT/LAME Basic & Type Training, Standards & Prospects are needed now more than ever, regardless of NAA. As a former BCAR holder, you know that.

BAe146
FAA AMT
www.alae.org
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Old 22nd April 2009, 16:56   #58 (permalink)
 
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I thought this thread was about how to obtain an A&P??

It can be like comparing apples with apples. There are some A&P mechanics who have a huge amount of experience and are great on the tools, then you get B1/B2 guys who are very academic but struggle to do anything at all practically.

There's no doubt the A&P was easier (although you can be undone by the practical) than the A&C, but theres no need to bash the guys who have one.
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Old 22nd April 2009, 17:40   #59 (permalink)
 
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everybody in the land of dreaming..:~)
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Old 22nd April 2009, 22:11   #60 (permalink)
 
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and today's gold star goes to Flightmech...

well said...
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