Aviation in the the NSW Fires
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AMRAAM,
nil owned,two contracted BK 117 and a whole swag of call when needed airframes and crew. Basic criteria is supposed to apply for the Rural Fire Service work covering hours, insurance etc however varying rumours as to this being applied. The RFS and NPWS web sites list the resources being applied. Generally this is updated in the late morning. Try <a href="http://www.bushfire.nsw.gov.au" target="_blank">www.bushfire.nsw.gov.au</a> or <a href="http://www.NPWS.nsw.gov.au" target="_blank">www.NPWS.nsw.gov.au</a>
Callsigns were co-orded with Vic however not sure if this still applies.
Hopefully everyone keeping it safe and no scares.
Syd.
nil owned,two contracted BK 117 and a whole swag of call when needed airframes and crew. Basic criteria is supposed to apply for the Rural Fire Service work covering hours, insurance etc however varying rumours as to this being applied. The RFS and NPWS web sites list the resources being applied. Generally this is updated in the late morning. Try <a href="http://www.bushfire.nsw.gov.au" target="_blank">www.bushfire.nsw.gov.au</a> or <a href="http://www.NPWS.nsw.gov.au" target="_blank">www.NPWS.nsw.gov.au</a>
Callsigns were co-orded with Vic however not sure if this still applies.
Hopefully everyone keeping it safe and no scares.
Syd.
As one whose property came close to being wiped out by the bushfires in 1994 and again within the past 24 hours, I just want to pay tribute to the helicopter pilots who are working so hard to save us and our homes.
Seeing those machines in action at such close range is at the same time both awesome (in the true sense of the word)and reassuring.
Pity that there are anti-social morons who make the task necessary in the first place. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Seeing those machines in action at such close range is at the same time both awesome (in the true sense of the word)and reassuring.
Pity that there are anti-social morons who make the task necessary in the first place. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: standing by my bbq
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My hat's off to all involved with the fires in NSW !!!
A little info on the CL-415, from what I have personally seen working beside them (I fly in Canada). If you have a good water source close by, they can put lots of water on the fire very quickly. Their tank holds approx 5700 litres. Where they lose out, is when they have to go long distances to pick up water. The CL-415 can cruise at 180 kts, but compared to a P-3 Orion, or other converted ex-military, ground based attack aircraft they are slow.
Experts, well the definition of an expert is ex= has-been, never-was, spurt= drip under pressure !!!
The triangular shape of a pine, spruce, etc makes it incredibly difficult to hit anything underneath. The water just runs off the tree, completely missing anything underneath. Whereas working around the leafy trees the leaves are blown out of the way, so the water can get to the ground. I would suspect that the gum trees would be similar. One major difference though, is the amount of oils, resins contained in the gum trees compared to trees native to North America. Your trees hold quite a bit more, which I suspect would cause the fire to spread very rapidly, and get hotter, faster than ours do.
Oh John, if you're ever looking for some fun, try coming to this side of the Pacific. We'll get you on a 200' line bucketing in the mountains at 5,000' with an oat of 30+.
Cheers
Randy_G
A little info on the CL-415, from what I have personally seen working beside them (I fly in Canada). If you have a good water source close by, they can put lots of water on the fire very quickly. Their tank holds approx 5700 litres. Where they lose out, is when they have to go long distances to pick up water. The CL-415 can cruise at 180 kts, but compared to a P-3 Orion, or other converted ex-military, ground based attack aircraft they are slow.
Experts, well the definition of an expert is ex= has-been, never-was, spurt= drip under pressure !!!
The triangular shape of a pine, spruce, etc makes it incredibly difficult to hit anything underneath. The water just runs off the tree, completely missing anything underneath. Whereas working around the leafy trees the leaves are blown out of the way, so the water can get to the ground. I would suspect that the gum trees would be similar. One major difference though, is the amount of oils, resins contained in the gum trees compared to trees native to North America. Your trees hold quite a bit more, which I suspect would cause the fire to spread very rapidly, and get hotter, faster than ours do.
Oh John, if you're ever looking for some fun, try coming to this side of the Pacific. We'll get you on a 200' line bucketing in the mountains at 5,000' with an oat of 30+.
Cheers
Randy_G
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My thanks to the helo pilot at Woodlands Oval the other day who allowed me to take a closer look at his aircraft and to have a chat to me regarding his profession even though it was bloody hot and he was tired. In between my shifts (I'm an RFS Volunteer), I've been checking out the amazing array of aircraft out and about in NSW at the moment and, being new to aviation and very enthusiastic, have approached pilots ad hoc (as you do) and find out as much as I can.
Under the circumstances, you couldn't blame them if I copped a clip over the ear but no, all of them have been fabulous and have subsequently provided a tremendous influence and my vision for a flying future is that much brighter.
Under the circumstances, you couldn't blame them if I copped a clip over the ear but no, all of them have been fabulous and have subsequently provided a tremendous influence and my vision for a flying future is that much brighter.
Just another quick question regarding 'Elvis'. If this thing can pick up 9000 litres of water in a matter of minutes, what effect does this have on the handling of the aircraft? A 9000kg change in payload must surely have a big effect, although judging from the position of the tank it seems to be close to where I imagine the CoG would be.
A non-flying friend of mine actually asked me this, and assumed I would know the answer because "you're a pilot aren't you?". Any replies appreciated.
Cheers,
TL
[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: Transition Layer ]</p>
A non-flying friend of mine actually asked me this, and assumed I would know the answer because "you're a pilot aren't you?". Any replies appreciated.
Cheers,
TL
[ 03 January 2002: Message edited by: Transition Layer ]</p>
Join Date: May 2001
Location: perth
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like all helicopters lifting a load, it requires more power from the engines and torque through the main gear box. The rates of climb can be reduced and its cog is not affected as the water is released evenly, no problems there. You have to be careful with excessive rates of descent because of the inertia you have, but with water, it can be released quickly.
These machines are designed for this very purpose and as you can see, are extremely effective.
These machines are designed for this very purpose and as you can see, are extremely effective.
We did think that we'd fair claim to $US55 million, but the RFS decided he was really one of their's, and not the retaliation on Australia we'd all been fearing......
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Out and About
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John, photo looks familiar
I think the person he is referring to that showed him the aircraft was Scott, I remember a photog coming over who had an older model Canon camera and Scott and I were just cleaning the 206.
For the record everyone I watched a weeks worth of helo ops from the Air Attack Bell 206 and it was amazing. People such as John did a fantastic job, as did the other pilots and crews there. I have visited a lot of fires around the world and the Woodlands Helibase was a great group of people. For those that are interested what we had during my week there was as follows:
BK-117 (Powercor Lifeflight Machine)
BK-117 (McIver Aviation - RFS Contract Machine)
UH-1H (HeliPro NZ)
BK-117 (HeliPro NZ)
Bell 206 (Commercial Helicopters)
Bell 206 (Heli Aust)
Bell 212 (CHC Australia)
Bell 412 (CHC Australia)
Plus we also had Elvis come in for a day or two.
I had the opportunity to get right down on the front lines with the Bat Commanders and got to see the effect the helos were having. Seeing numerous houses ringed with fire and then seeing the helos douse it and talking to relieved home owners was a sobering thought.
To John and all those working the fires, GREAT JOB GUY.
Pac Rotors
I think the person he is referring to that showed him the aircraft was Scott, I remember a photog coming over who had an older model Canon camera and Scott and I were just cleaning the 206.
For the record everyone I watched a weeks worth of helo ops from the Air Attack Bell 206 and it was amazing. People such as John did a fantastic job, as did the other pilots and crews there. I have visited a lot of fires around the world and the Woodlands Helibase was a great group of people. For those that are interested what we had during my week there was as follows:
BK-117 (Powercor Lifeflight Machine)
BK-117 (McIver Aviation - RFS Contract Machine)
UH-1H (HeliPro NZ)
BK-117 (HeliPro NZ)
Bell 206 (Commercial Helicopters)
Bell 206 (Heli Aust)
Bell 212 (CHC Australia)
Bell 412 (CHC Australia)
Plus we also had Elvis come in for a day or two.
I had the opportunity to get right down on the front lines with the Bat Commanders and got to see the effect the helos were having. Seeing numerous houses ringed with fire and then seeing the helos douse it and talking to relieved home owners was a sobering thought.
To John and all those working the fires, GREAT JOB GUY.
Pac Rotors
Senis Semper Fidelis
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Lancashire U K
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To all of you people fighting the fires in Oz,
we Brit's only see the slightest if view's on our world news system(BBC), it look's horrendeous and mightily dangerous, you are all very brave people, both men and women who are fighting the fires, when you eventually win and put them out, start on your politician's, who, from our view have left you all high and dry, and have only seemed to start to do things at what looks like the last minute, if any fire raisers are proved to have started deliberate fires, then they should be very severely punished.
To all of you, most Brits admire your spirit, keep it up!
My regards to you all, Fly safe.
Peter B
we Brit's only see the slightest if view's on our world news system(BBC), it look's horrendeous and mightily dangerous, you are all very brave people, both men and women who are fighting the fires, when you eventually win and put them out, start on your politician's, who, from our view have left you all high and dry, and have only seemed to start to do things at what looks like the last minute, if any fire raisers are proved to have started deliberate fires, then they should be very severely punished.
To all of you, most Brits admire your spirit, keep it up!
My regards to you all, Fly safe.
Peter B
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Out and About
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey vfrpilotpb
John will probably hang me for this but he is Brit from way back anyway
There have been a great mixture of people on the fires, from many countries.
Pac Rotors <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
John will probably hang me for this but he is Brit from way back anyway
There have been a great mixture of people on the fires, from many countries.
Pac Rotors <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Guest
Posts: n/a
John Eacott
'occasional compressor stall banging away as one of the donks starves of oxygen'...........
Oxygen starvation is not your problem John - your bleed-bands or flow-fence actuator are jamming probably with all the smoke and sap you've been flying through. Just have a look on your next pre-flight and you'll be able to see. Check with your engineers and they should be able to give you their preferred lubricant to loosen them up.
Compressor stalls are serious occurrances as the shock waves generated can stress turbine components.
Fly safe - remember the object of the exercise is to bring the machine home in the same condition you took it in.
'occasional compressor stall banging away as one of the donks starves of oxygen'...........
Oxygen starvation is not your problem John - your bleed-bands or flow-fence actuator are jamming probably with all the smoke and sap you've been flying through. Just have a look on your next pre-flight and you'll be able to see. Check with your engineers and they should be able to give you their preferred lubricant to loosen them up.
Compressor stalls are serious occurrances as the shock waves generated can stress turbine components.
Fly safe - remember the object of the exercise is to bring the machine home in the same condition you took it in.
