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Old 21st Mar 2002, 01:31   #1 (permalink)
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Post C206 tips/techniques

I was wondering if some of you guys who have flown/fly 206's could pass on any tips about flying them,especially stuff that's not in the book,as these are the a/c that most of us newbies will fly.I suppose you could also include 207's and 210's.Thanks. Bruce
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 02:00   #2 (permalink)
 
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Nice aeroplane to fly. Be careful not to load to much in the rear as c of g moves rapidly aft once a bit of fuel has been burnt. Be aware if the engine goes quiet it comes down like a brick. Pay even more attention to the above if you are driving a 207. If you have not flowen it besides with your instructor, my advice is to grab him/her and load the thing up to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" /> mauw with a rear c of g and see how it handles. Are you flying them around the mountains in NZ?
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 05:24   #3 (permalink)
 
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Self agree's with the above reply. Been ages since I flew a 206. Memory tells me there was a split hi/lo pressure fuel pump toggle switch. 'Hi' was never used, and could cause big problems if accidently turned on, particlarly before take-off. As for the 207, what can I say! Last 207 I saw was a Tillair one disappearing behind the sand dunes at the old Ayers Rock strip! It eventually climbed away.
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 05:58   #4 (permalink)

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My tip goes along with the above, if you land with a C of G close to the rear limit & once you have taxied in & come to a stop, let the Punters or what ever out first if possible before you hop out just so theres no chance of it resting its bottom on the ground & imbarassing you & annoying ya CP.. . . . <small>[ 21 March 2002, 02:00: Message edited by: Blue Line ]</small>
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 06:19   #5 (permalink)

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southposs. .. .C206 is just a C182 on steroids and flies the same, if you fly it to the book and the numbers. The book works, Cessna spent several godzillion dollars and the input of nearly as many operators to write it, just do it that way and you wont get into trouble.. .The use of tips tricks etc are best left until you are really comfortable with the aircraft and in any event tricks should be confined to your local sideshow alley magician or as the things ladies of the night might turn. The last time I saw anybody try one of these the crash and cloud of dust was preceded by the "hey... watch this guys". .. .C207. .Again ignore the lead sled stuff, the aircraft will do exactly as advertised, again fly it by the book, and just because it has 8 seats......... .. .I suspect that what brings the surprise and them undone for most C206 drivers when they go onto the C207 is that the C207 never had the reflex leading edge installed. Right up to the last one out of the factory.. .This was standard on all C206 after 1975 when it went I think from F to G model. This had a significant effect on the TO and Landing performance in the C206 which was never translated to the C207.. .If you don't know what I mean by reflex leading edge go find and early pre 75 C182 or 206 and compare it with a later model. It is that concavity on the lower surface just behind the leading edge. The same applies to C172.. .It was also about the same time as the conical cambered wing tips were installed which like the tip tanks on the twins exploited the wing tip vortices way before winglets became fashionable.. .. .C210 again a perfect lady and a single engine legend in it's own time, if you fly by the book and the numbers, when it says accelerate (this you must do airbourne and it will fairly quickly) and climb at if I recall at 100 some KTAS that's what will get you best rate but dont leave it on the ground any longer than the book says either and everybody lands way too fast.. .In experienced hands it will literally sit up and dance and the "demonstrated crosswind velocity" will not necessarily be the limit.. .Why not leave it on the ground any longer than the book says for that acceleration.? . .I'll leave you to tell me why you think that might be so, but a clue is that this little lady starts to teach you about how the big kids aircraft want to play.. .They are lesson that will carry you through to the big kids playground.. .. .Look forward to a long friendship with these types and don't be in a hurry as you will be taught heaps about the way this aviation world really works from the most succesful teachers in the world, the aircraft in question.. .And for any of the Beech and Piper fanatics lurking out there, just go count the ways at your local airport where aircraft are used to make a living. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .The other PPRuNers should have warned you about me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 21 March 2002, 02:35: Message edited by: gaunty ]</small>
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 07:03   #6 (permalink)

 
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Reduce to a low power setting on decent into the remote N.T. communities especially very early in the morning when it’s nice and crisp……………sneak up on your target.. .. .Just as you pass over the Tin Sheds at a very modest and legal “1000ft” plus or minus a few feet ..”yeah right”, open up the taps in a nice hard turn…..and give the donk a good old roar!!. .. .Some people cannot afford alarm clocks in the N.T. and do not have electricity, so Cessna 206’s can become very effective wake up devices for those who have spent a hard night on the “GREEN CAN” and have trouble getting out of bed at 6:00 am to meet their charter.. .. .Once you land you will be welcomed with open arms by the locals and thanked for you generosity and assistance in getting them up nice and early – Not only will the camp dogs go wild but every baby in the camp will also start crying and you will taxi in to a chaotic remote area symphony of cry’s screaming barking and verbal abuse……. .. .It’s simply breath taking I suggest you try it……... .. .VINCE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 07:17   #7 (permalink)

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Vince. .. .Bwahahahahahahahaha.....tears rolling down cheeks.
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 07:35   #8 (permalink)
 
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As I recall, in the 206 if you want to get out the back door in an emergency or otherwise, put the flaps up. One more great Cessna design trait!. .As with any Cessna of similar configuration, lead into turn with rudder, and in the 206, get used to an unusually high nose attitude on landing.. .The 210 is a very good/useful plane and is very popular with operators for these reasons amongst others, but it isn't a patch on the A36 for sheer flying pleasure!
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 08:40   #9 (permalink)
 
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It is possible to open the rear door of a 206 with the flaps down, open the front part as far as possible (about 2 inches) then open the rear door and restow the rear door handle then open the rear door. Sounds confusing but it works and its probably a good idea to tell your pax how to do it also. . .The 210 is a great aeroplane just watch the descent until you get the hang of it cause they are a bit slippery!! Also on a hot day they will use a fair bit (more than a 206) of strip to get off the deck and get climbing.. .The 207 is a breed if its own. Prone to sitting on the tail as previously mentioned, always load this baby front to back and when loading your last passenger in the back put a hand or shoulder under the door frame as they get in to make sure it doesn't hit the ground. Also in windy conditions on landing be careful about selecting that last stage of flap too early because you don't have an abundance of excess power like the 206/210 to get yourself out of a low slow situation. I made a point of never going below 80kts before I was over the fence (inless its really short) speed washes off real fast and its better to add heaps of power early in a possible undershoot than leave it till later. I also aggree with a rear COG MTOW load check for this plane.
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 09:42   #10 (permalink)
 
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The cargo door is a major concern if you are on floats. Can also be if the fwd door is rendered inoperable for some reason.. .. . <a href="http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/syssafe/newsletters/letter/asl-298/english/008e.htm" target="_blank">206 Cargo door</a>
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 09:59   #11 (permalink)
 
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Vince. Wouldn't be referring to Docker River by any chance? Been there, done that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 10:31   #12 (permalink)
 
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206 - Nice aeroplane - flys beautifully. Dont try and land too fast to the point of nose wheeling it in. Feel the attitude as you approach.. .. .207 - best advice I got on this one is to use an over the fence speed of 65 knots and add 2 knots for each passenger or freight equivalent. Works a charm. With Heavy loads keep a little power on through the flare just in case you stuff it and balloon which then becomes a difficult situation if you're not quick on the power cos it drops like a rock.. .. .210 - beautiful plane slippery on descent. watch the speed build up because Va is 120kts while sometimes descent speeds reach 160-170kts so be careful you dont get that divine clap. The sound of the wind rushing past is a really good guide as to how fast is too fast.. .. .Enjoy the flying its fantastic.
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 14:10   #13 (permalink)
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I have found with the 206/207/210 that you should leave a small amount of power on until you round out and then dribble it of as you flare, they will land nicely then.. .with the 207, try to avoid flying it on a hot day at mauw coz it simply wont fly or at best will scare the bejezuz out of ya. (Gaunty, those book numbers worked well 20 years ago when it had paint and engine and stuff).. .A lil tip with the 210, DO NOT retract the gear below 90kts or 50ft because they drop down before they go backward and sideways (into the airflow) and can be awfully embarasing when screaching tyres being dragged down the runway sideways attract attention.. .Oh and land the 210 as slow as practicle as the wheel size and brake size are way smaller than whats really required and a burst tyre at MAUW at 80kts is a scarey noise.. .. .they are probabley the best commercial aircraft availabe to do what they do in Australia and have been doing it for a while so that has to speak volumes about them. (if you do the maths you will find that doing what most of em do they are the best $$$ maker around) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 16:02   #14 (permalink)
 
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The 206/207 are a great aircraft. I used to fly them out of the rock on a 45 degree day at max weight and head of in to a dirt strip in WA. They did everything that the book said they would. I used to load them with my shoulder under the top of the rear door and if I had to start bending my knees than I was getting an aft C of G. 65 knots over the fence with just the smallest amount of power worked best for me. I would fly one tommorow if I had the chance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 17:45   #15 (permalink)

 
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In my GA days found the 206 very reliable and does the job it was designed to do. CG determination was easey: throw all the bums and bags on then push the tail down. If it came back up your home and hosed. If it stayed down, shifting a few slabs of p!ss from the cargo comp into the laps of the pax worked for me.. .. .With the amount of right rudder needed to keep straight it made TOs with strong left XWs a bit tight. I found "milking in" the power till about 40kts on the clock worked best.. .. .The only bitch I had about the thing was its bloodey engine. I could NEVER get a successful hot start first go.
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 18:14   #16 (permalink)
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If you're flying in PNG, there are a couple of things to learn:-. .Get a good briefing on how to lean the mixture for take off at strip over 2,000 AMSL.. .At short TOW-limited strips, after you've checked the passengers' belts, etc, open the belly locker and check it thoroughly for extra unauthorised cargo sneaked aboard while you weren't looking.. .. .Have fun. .. .P40. . . . <small>[ 24 March 2002, 03:41: Message edited by: P40 ]</small>
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Old 21st Mar 2002, 20:47   #17 (permalink)
 
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Southposs. .All the above is some very good advice and a/c considerations. Make sure you are demonstrated the correct procedure for leaning the mixture in climb and cruise - it is very important to ensure that you make it to that far away place over the desert when planned on min fuel - and also good engine management. Also be very pedantict with engine cooling in the descent and approach. If you do not allow enough time to cool the big six - at least an inch of MAP per minute or 1000', preferably more - or you get high and fast on base or final and pull the power, you can easily shock cool and crack cylinder heads. This will make you very unpopular very quickly. . .Fly the 206 & 210 by the book until you have a good feel for them and talk to the other pilots about individual a/c idiosyncrasies. This will keep you out of trouble until you have a few hours on type.. .. .Guanty . .G'day! Could you please explain why you recommend not to hold the 210 on the ground?. .. ."Why not leave it on the ground any longer than the book says for that acceleration.? . .I'll leave you to tell me why you think that might be so, but a clue is that this little lady starts to teach you about how the big kids aircraft want to play.. .They are lesson that will carry you through to the big kids playground.". .. .I'm not too sure what you're getting at here but I hope that is a result of sleep deprivation on my behalf. A few more details would be greatly appreciated.. .. .VneII
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Old 22nd Mar 2002, 04:01   #18 (permalink)
 
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What flying schools in Melbourne hire out 206's and would they be suitable for a long trip (around 40 hours over 3 weeks) prior to going for a CPL??
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Old 22nd Mar 2002, 05:35   #19 (permalink)

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Vne11. .You ask. . </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Could you please explain why you recommend not to hold the 210 on the ground? Why not leave it on the ground any longer than the book says for that acceleration.? . .</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">OK, short version follows.. .As a result of the reflex wing configuration wing Angle of Incidence and high lift at relatively low airspeed wing of the C206, TO flap coupled with usually a fairly positive AoA due to the rear seat load, it is hard to keep it on the ground, even if you wanted to it will just fly off, unless you really want to practise driving a wheelbarrow. The difference between the TO speed and Best Rate climb speed is relatively low.. .That is with TO trim and hands off, these aircraft tend to be already at or approaching a level flight AoA at or around the speed/time you are ready to get airbourne any further increase in speed will just fly it off.. .. .OK now in general terms the C of P is also moving reawards with increase in speed so that is not helping us at this point and if we allowed the above situation to develop with increasing speed add the effect of camber of the flap the wheelbarrowing tendency increases and the force required to raise the nose and get the vectors pointing in the required direction increases, the elevator deflection required increases, the resulting profile and trim drag increases all at a time when we are on or close to being on the wrong side of the L/D curve. . .As an aside because of the torque at high power a lot of rudder is being carried at this low speed for directional control which equals higher drag.. .And the vertical stabiliser offset that provides the low drag solution to the problem in cruise flight is not yet fully effective. Go and have a look at the vertical stabiliser offset if you haven't already seen it by getting up on a step ladder at the front of the aircraft and look back down the dorsal surface of the aircraft over the wing down to the fin. You might also notice the engine offset from centreline.. .. .The gear being fixed is not a factor in this particular equation.. .. .So the balance of these forces is certainly not optimum when you fail to fly the aircraft faster than the numbers in the TO configuration in any type. . .. .The C210 has by comparison a different wing section with out reflex leading edge and as a result of the gear configuration tends to sit "nose down" or in a relatively negative A o A which requires a more positive rotation to a positive A o A to become airbourne, add the C o P shift with TO flap and more rapidly increasing speed to the recommended 100KTAS best rate which is way way beyond the numbers required for TO and you can see that the forces described above are, relatively speaking, working much harder against you than in the C206.. .. .Landing way too fast is the other side of that coin and we all know what happens if you get it rel wrong and cant get the nose up because there is insufficient elevator authority. .. .Add to that the gear retraction sequence, remember drag is not a linear function with speed the sooner you can get it off the ground and cleaned up the faster it will get to that best rate speed and more rapidly increase the distance between yourself and the ground, which BTW is the whole object of the exercise in the first place.. .. .OK so now we can apply that simple L/D issues to the TO acceleration without introducing the complications of the above scenario. . .We all know how the L/D v AoA curve operates and it is pretty obvious that during the intial acceleration to the TO speed zero or a slightly negative A o A will not produce any lift and that pesky drag that comes with it and ensure that the acceleration will be at optimum for that segment of the TO.. .It becomes equally obvious that raising the nose to try and drag it off will have the opposite effect, drag being the operative word, and hanging about to get some extra speed is only going to consume extra runway, extra being the noperative word, either way once airbourne.. .The originally desribed after TO scenario is common to both until acceleration and final climb configuration is eventually achieved and the poor aircraft is maybe allowed to do what it does best despite your efforts to the contrary.. .. .That is fly the aircraft speeds computed at the weight and temp accurately and you will be rewarded with the performance advertised by the manufacturer.. .. .And while I'm at it the same applies to cruise.. .. .Fly it slower than the usual highest power settings available in the AFM in the usual old wives tale "engine saving mode" and you are actually achieving the opposite.. .Remember the vertical stabiliser offset, the engine offset and the angle of incidence (between the fuselage and wing) v A o A are all set to produce the optimum speed lowest drag at THAT power setting anything lower setting works against you, higher drag, engine working harder, lower speed, lower SAR , lower cooling conditions, higher fuel consumption and so it goes. The "savings" are illusory.. .. .Fly accurately and by the numbers, this "macho grizzled aviator man against the elements feel and instinct" in day to day normal ops is just BS.. .. .Until you have built and sold as many aircraft as the manufacturer then leave the second guessing BS to the heroes in the aero club bar while you get on with being a well informed pro.. .. .What does this have to do with the big kids playground? Why do the manufacturers pump all this fuel backwards and forwards in long range cruise and why are winglets only really effective at high altiitude.. .I'll let you think that one through for yourselves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .But Checkboard, I or someone else is always around if you need help. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
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Old 22nd Mar 2002, 06:47   #20 (permalink)
 
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Have a couple of thousand hours on C206/207 & C210 and they certainly handle the heavy loads. If you load the C206 then sit on the tail and it comes back up it's OK (freight technique - not recommended for pax ops). Hot and heavy in the NT you could only chop the remaining power when the wheels were almost on.. .. .Docker River landing technique brings back memories - but wasn't Giles more fun??? (especially when the strip was wet - could land uphill on the taxi way). .. .Don't recommend running a tank dry on the 206 - heard of one that did and ended up in the ocean.
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