Sounds like they made a simple financial decision. Is the cost of going outside curfew going to be more than the cost of delaying the flight? If the answer is no then take the fine.
b_star, bit of a difference between $12K and $1M. However the principle of operating curfews at airports that have been around Moses played for the Angels' XI bugs me.
Wellington was built way before dormitory suburbs were established in the area; Christchurch is the same. I'm not familiar with Sydney, but suggest they are in a similar position, where the Johnny-come-lately residents are the ones insisting on curfews.
Perhaps, like the Rongotai vs Paraparaumu as Wellington's main airport argument of the 1960's, Sydney should bite the bullet and build a new airport way out there in the boonies. "Ring fence" it as an airport in zoning regs (i.e. "grandfathered" rights compared with newer residential developments).
Wouldn't it be great then, when the curfew insisters grumble about the ground travel times, complain back that "it was never like this when we operated out of Mascot."
Or is that too subtle or simplistic (to say nothing of expensive)?
Old Un, I'd suggest it's not so much a case of urban creep around the perimeter of the airport and associated arrival and departure tracks, rather a demographic shift to more cashed up middle classes who make up, as Sunfish referred to "The Sydney Push"
Is it possible that banning EK from Sydney for even a short time would be the cause of a few, maybe many, people losing their job?
EK would still be able to operate out of BNE and MEL... offer SYDMEL and SYDBNE at subsidised airfares... and still beat the fares of other airlines to Europe. Many posters on this forum believe that lower air fares win passengers.
Emirates has provided a detailed response to the department about the breaches. The department will provide a brief to the Director of Public Prosecutions, who will then have to decide whether to press charges.
Steady on- Let's stay away from the Guilty til proven innocent regime.
I can assure you the EK crews take the curfew very seriously.
There would have to be mitigating circumstances to these breaches, I know first hand that it is not the crew just saying- "Look curfew is coming up, let's go anyways ---"
Personally- I think the curfew is bshit anyways. Yet another reason why Australia is an economic laughing stock for the rest of the world. QF HQ based in Sydney - Curfew EK HQ based in Dubai - 24 hr ops.
What if a controller just said "No I cannot let you takeoff as I will be knowingly allowing you to break the law"?
It's good that ATC are not policemen / women. Let ATC do traffic management, and let the govt or CASA do enforcement.
How about keeping the existing system with large fines, but applying the money to subsidise insulation in the airport suburbs. Probably impossible to administer though!
Usually past practices of other Airports around the globe that operate to similar curfews was to use a "common sense approach" in times of adverse weather and provide operators dispensations to depart during times of curfew to clear the backlog of flights. Sadly though, Sydney Airport does not and will not contemplate operating with this flexibility. (Probably mainly due to misinformed Government numb nuts intervening and trying to kick political goals in their electorates.)
As mentioned before, all this just adds to Australia continuing down that slope of becoming more and more a Global Joke in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Sydney airport continues to consolidate these views.
If I was in the same position I'd be getting the Company to authorise me IN WRITING (as a get-out-of-jail-free card) to bust Sinney's bullshit curfew restrictions. I'm sure the M-rat capt would've done the same.
I thank fcuk I don't fly into that psychotic place anymore.
I do think SYD airport is a joke from crap controlling to low amount of slots compared to other sizable international airports and even charging for the use of a baggae cart. However the law is the law and to answer someones question a few posts ago,yes EK do think they are above the law. They persucute and intimidate pilots and F/As as they wish and have "amended" many work rules and standards as they see fit. Ie: signing on way earlier then they actually count and not even counting bunk time as total flight time etc. I could go on... They are a law unto themselves in many less civilized places and I do count Dubai among that list. They need a real wake up call at the moment but CASA and the government haven't got the balls. Don't forget the australian government are going to/have signed a extradition treaty with a medieval state with racist laws so I think a curfew bust really doesn't worry them that much.
No, there are many others (like KHH for example) that have a curfew, but have a commonsense approach esp in matters of weather or other delays that aren't the fault of the airline nor the crew.
It's an interesting situation though. I recall QF telling me innumerable times over the years that you need to be both safe AND legal. Were EK legal in this circumstance? The PIC knows he isn't breaking any aviation laws but he's still breaking the law.
Again, I think it says an interesting thing about an organisation's culture when they're quite happy to break the law and cop the fine because that's the cheapest/ easiest thing to do.
Emirates are no more than Corporate Cowboys who obviously have scant respect for the Rule of Law, if they have heard of it. Like it or not, there is a curfew in force at Sydney, and while it's still in place, carriers have to work within its confines. If ANY carrier is unprepared to observe our laws, they should either move on or be moved on.
A fine against EK would be quite meaningless. A stiffer sanction such as suspension of landing rights would be a more sensible penalty - there would certainly not be breaches of the curfew were that penalty imposed for flagrant disregard of our laws. And, who knows waht else EK are failing to observe???
I am sure we will be having a very different conversation when one day somebody elects to rush a departure during inclement weather just to meet curfew requirements.
Those of you who have brought up "practical applications" of curfews abroad have hit the nail on the head. This is a professional pilots/aviation forum and the real issue being discussed here should be under which (if any) conditions there should be an automatic extension to the curfew granted. Is there anyone on this forum with practical experience of applying for an extension to operate outside the curfew? It'd be interesting to hear how the process evolved.
Some of the myopic/parochial comments about Emirates and making pilots liable make me cringe, no wonder my pom mates now refer to us as "whinging Aussie's..."
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