DFRDB/MSBS Indexation -Heads Up for ex-ADF people

Dagger Dirk · 8th November 2009, 13:47

Interesting discussion on the hidden agenda for hiding the disappointing and inequitable outcome of the Matthew's report on indexation of DFRDB pensions etc (a KRUDD pre-Election promise that fizzled).

is at this link

UNCTUOUS · 30th November 2009, 02:02

Keep thinking about this when you are advising your son, daughter, niece or nephew whether or not to join the ADF as a career (short or long)

Captain Sand Dune · 30th November 2009, 22:43

I wouldn't let that put you off a career in Defence. However forewarned is forearmed! As I have stated on other threads, my advice is to contribute the bare minimum to MSBS and salary sacrifice to another superannuation fund of your choice. Should MSBS start performing like a real super fund should (ain't holding my breath!) you could always roll the funds from the other fund into it.

Pera · 1st December 2009, 01:36

What has the amount you contribute got to do with indexing of your pension? You have to take your contributions as a lump sum.

UNCTUOUS · 14th February 2010, 13:58

Dear All,

By way of introduction, and for those who don’t know me, my name is Peter Thornton and as an Ex-Military and Commonwealth Superannuant. I am seeking your IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE PLEASE to broadcast this message as widely as possible and to take part in the action as detailed below.

To explain, and if you are not aware; there has been a long term plight by a large number of Ex-Military and Commonwealth Retirees and Representative Bodies to seek justice in correcting the ongoing erosion of Government Retirement Pensions ( i.e. to correct the poor indexation mechanism of DFRB/DFRDB, MSBS, CSS and PSS Superannuation benefits). If you need some instant measure of how much Government Retirees have been shafted over the last 20 years or so (or will likely to be shafted into the future .... attention to all those who are yet to retire!) then the graph below will be a stark reminder and/or an instant reference to the injustice that has been perpetrated against Military and Commonwealth Superannuants ..... the erosion effectively forcing many onto welfare over time.

As a consequence, and to aid in this fight, 3 audience seats have been secured at the last minute for myself, John Coleman (Indexation Manager - SCOA) and Ian Scott (NSW State President - DFWA) in the upcoming ABC ‘Q and A’ program, this Monday evening, 15th of February, from 9:30-10:30pm. Here’s the link Q&A | ABC TV .

The purpose of obtaining seats on this specific occasion is because Lindsay Tanner (Minister for Finance) and Barnaby Joyce (Shadow Minister for Finance) will be on the panel and they are directly responsible for the carriage of this matter. As a consequence, the 3 of us will have the same pre-prepared question ready to ask the two Ministers about the ongoing injustice of current indexation arrangements and what the Government/Opposition intends to do about it.

HOWEVER, we face a major uphill battle (without your specific and collective help) because the erosion of Military/C’wlth Superannuation Pensions is not in the media spot light at the moment ..... and because we will be overshadowed by approximately 220 other people in the audience who will be eager to ask questions about other current affairs issues such as the ceiling installation deaths, the Emissions Trading Scheme etc.

BUT .... we believe that if everybody rallies as soon as possible to create a constant barrage of information flows on the Q and A website ... i.e. through their blog, submission of online questions, uploading of video questions etc ..... then maybe .... just maybe ..... it might be enough to convince Program Staff that our issue is truly a nationwide affair that affects up to 600,000 people (not including extended family) ... and is therefore worthy of a question to be asked.

ACTION PLAN:

1. We ask that upon receipt of this email that you all IMMEDIATELY ON FORWARD it to your extended networks .... and in turn .... we ask that these subsequent contacts to do the same (even if they are not affected) so we can generate a multiplier effect in generating the numbers and action needed.

2. We ask if everybody could access the Q and A website here Q&A | ABC TV and begin immediately to submit a barrage of questions in text, video, SMS and/or PPRuNe formats where possible. WE NEED TO TRY AND DROWN OUT ALL THE OTHER ISSUES/QUESTIONS IF WE CAN!!!!

3. We need everybody to be as active as possible on the night in question .... i.e. in blogging in your feelings before and particularly during the program ..... because .... we need you all to turn up the heat big time during the program so that Program Staff / Tony Jones will feel compelled to nominate one of us to ask the question.

DO YOU NEED MORE INFORMATION OR SOURCES OF INSPRIATION? ...... THEN PLEASE ACCESS THE FOLLOWING WEBSITES ......

SCOA: Superannuated Commonwealth Officers Association (Superannuated Commonwealth Officer’s Association)

http://www.dfwa.org.au/ (Defence Force Welfare Association ..... click on ‘WHAT’S NEW’ ..... )

I trust and hope you will all rally to this occasion .... and I apologise in advance if you have received this message in error or will receive it more than once in the next few days ... but under the circumstances ... I hope you will understand.

Kind regards

Peter Thornton
DFRDB (Ex-Army 1980-2001) & PSS Superannuant (C’wlth 2001 – 2007)
02 6296 7003
0406 1944 69

Ex FSO GRIFFO · 14th February 2010, 16:52

Thanks for the 'heads -up' Peter,

Question re the indexation issue sent addressed to Lindsay Tanner......

Griffo, CSS superannuant.

UNCTUOUS · 14th February 2010, 17:41

.
from this link:
.
http://www.dfwa.org.au/images/other/...pdf_sep_09.pdf

Clinton McKenzie · 15th February 2010, 21:46

Hi Peter

More power to your arm, but I’m afraid not much is going to change. Mr Tanner’s position on Q&A last night was brutally clear.

(I did laugh at Mr Tanner’s suggestion that ADF members ‘chose’ a fund that was guaranteed, but with indexation that could result in inexorable deterioration in value. As if ADF members had a choice, and as if they understood the existence and extent of the risk that the CPI would ultimately be an invalid index in the circumstances. I know what I was told and understood, as a 15 year old recruit.... )

I hope you’re not labouring under the misconception that the merits of the issue determine the outcome. The determining factor is that the aggrieved pensioners do not constitute a sufficiently concentrated or numerous block of votes to make or break governments (bit like the GA ‘industry’, really).

Perhaps the only potential chink in the political armour is the ACT. There might be a sufficient block of votes in the ACT to get a Senator up. A single Senator can make a big difference.

Does SCOA or any other representative organisation intend running a Senate candidate in the ACT?

rmcdonal · 15th February 2010, 22:13

So the defence super is linked to the CPI?

UNCTUOUS · 16th February 2010, 02:36

Quote:

rmcdonal So the defence super is linked to the CPI?

Of course and that's the reason why its value is falling away so rapidly. Look at the graph above. It's not rocket science.

CPI was discarded as an invalid measure of inflation mny many years ago and they eventually had to modify the calculation of pension indexation to retain the grey-power vote. However a similar calculation bestowed insufficient increments to parliamentary pensions so the bureau of statistics was asked to evolve a guaranteed methodology for providing and locking in significant adjustments to politician's pensions. They were then locked into the same rises that politicians who haven't yet retired are awarded.

Minister Tanner's weak and puny excuse for being unable to do something similar to Defence pensioners was simply that their defined benefit scheme has always orbited around that CPI concept. He says that anyone who'd opted on discharge or retirement NOT to take a lump sum of some (or maximum available) size would be "relatively" disadvantaged if the CPI basis for annual increments was to be changed. This (in DFRDB anyway) is believed to be around only 1.5% of Defence Force pensioners - (but he didn't mention that).

Overall the govt attitude has always been that the electoral power of ex Defence Force personnel and War pensioners/widows etc is minimal in the overall scheme of things - and any cost/benefit study only serves to reinforce that view. It would cost any budget dearly to depart that CPI fix, because once they'd done that, there would then be no justification for NOT implementing "fair" increases such as the politicians or OAP's get now. It's a revolving door argument, full to the brim with specious arguments, that we can never win - without significant electoral clout.

Belgique · 22nd February 2010, 05:33

Well after studying this thread and the similar one on the Military Forum, I think I'll be joining the DFWA and becoming an agitator for ADF pensions fair play.
.
.

tail wheel · 22nd February 2010, 06:05

I wonder what the Commonwealth and States collective liability is for unfunded politician and public service superannuation?

Is Defence personnel superannuation funded or another unfunded liability? From the graph above, I assume unfunded?

I thought the Future Fund was to fund politician, public service and Defence personnel superannuation liability?

Not sure about politicians and public servants, but retired Defence Force personnel deserve a fair go. There was a time Australia was proud of the service and support given to very deserving ex servicemen.

C-change · 22nd February 2010, 11:19

I'm so glad that I wasted 20 years of my life serving in the ADF

.

I'll do everything that I can to stop my kids from joining.

What a waste of time.

Minimbah · 23rd February 2010, 04:35

C-Change: Serving in the ADF was not a waste of you time. It was and is an honourable profession as is evidenced by the comments of posters on this forum. Unfortunately, it is only our politicians of all persuasions that don’t realise this. They are happy to bask in the reflected glory of ADF personnel when they send them off on or return from a deployment, i.e. war, but a very quick to forget them after that.

Even though the compare of Q&A admitted that they had received thousands of emails on the topic of DFRB/CSS indexation, he only allowed one question from the audience and Mr Tanner waffled on displaying that he has no real knowledge of what the issue is and the unfairness of that situation as outlined by Unctuous.

Belgique · 23rd February 2010, 12:05

....the thread on the Military Forum (link is in the first post of this thread), here's a good rundown below, from there, of what a bogus operand the CPI has become:
i.e. like all politically vulnerable devices it can be cunningly manipulated to produce any outcome you wish (which is exactly what's been done for 25 years now):

Quote:

The CPI measurement is the greatest rubbery measurement stunt ever pulled on an unsuspecting population. The CPI measurement methods have been "adjusted" so much by politicians, the CPI measurement is now meaningless.

Google "CPI measure flawed" and you'll get plenty of food for thought. When the CPI measurement was introduced, a set basket of "goodies", the average purchasing requirements for a family or individual, to live satisfactorily, was the measurement standard.
Along the way, the CPI basket has been adjusted, screwed with, modified, quantified and generally made so irrelevant, to any actual living costs - by political influences - it is high time it was abandoned, and an independent, highly accurate measurement method, installed in its place.

Typical of the cunning CPI rorts, is the "discretionary" method of measurement, introduced by political forces, in years gone by (both Labor and Liberal).
The "discretionary" line says that any particular item in the basket can no longer be set as a fixed % of expenditure - but that it can be adjusted downwards, if prices rise.
The argument goes, that if fuel prices rise, you can use the car less - and therefore, fuel costs can be reduced as a % of weekly expenditure, when it comes to measuring fuel costs in the CPI figures.
The same "discretionary" line applies all across the board. They reckon that if wheat goes up, you can eat less Weeties, and eat something else that uses a cheaper grain.
This goes on, all across the board, and using this "discretionary" nonsense style of measurement means that no item can ever have a set % of expenditure attached to it.

This kind of "measurement" is the same kind of rubbery figures applied to everything that politicians ever have a hand in. No longer is your money fixed to a set value. No, it "floats", and has a different value every day. Guess who benefits out of this? Of course, not the average Joe Bloggs - but the national and global banks and finance houses! - as they trade in our currency, every minute of every hour of the day! - surprise! surprise!

A rubbery CPI gives politicians wondrous powers. They live and die by the CPI figures. A bad CPI is political death - but a good CPI makes them look like heroes! - and they get voted back in!! "Why not have a CPI we can 'adjust' at will, to suit our political ends", says the pollies?? What a wondrous idea! Fuel goes up? - they can ride bicycles! Bread goes up? - they can eat cake!! Marie Antoinette would rejoice, having access to the current CPI measurements - she could prove that the people weren't starving, and were more than comfortable, with a spreadsheet full of CPI figures to flourish as irrefutable proof....

Minimbah · 23rd February 2010, 22:33

And to think that these people actually control the indixation methods of the pensions in question

Writing Speeches For The Government

Belgique · 24th February 2010, 05:07

Here;s a link to demonstrate just how arbitrary and facetious price increases made in accordance with the declared CPI really are:

link

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