Best approach I have seen in improving pay has been to ask "What targets do I need to hit to get the pay I am after?". The response will tell you all you need to know about your future with that organisation.
It's only a matter of time that Australia will adopt the Multi crew lic. or take on board fresh CPL/ATPL (250hrs) plus current Type Rating newbies and mold them into their airline. They do it in Europe. The military has it's minimal hour selection courses as well. If one has what it takes then they will get selected.
In turn this will shrink GA except for flight schools, rfds and police wing's.
Is the clock ticking for GA charter operators...old fleets 20 plus years, SIDS etc????
I own the company, therefore that makes me the boss. I'll be as sadistic as I please. Get over it or leave.
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Does your boss huff and puff when you hit them up for a day rate?
Someone tries to hit me up and I'll show them the door.
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You have worked your butt off for the last 2 years and your boss tends to forget about this?
Yep, not much to show for it, but even my laziest employee gets paid before I do, even during slow periods. I get what's left at the end of the day, week, month or year even if an employee screwed up and I had to pay more to get the job done than I made or bills need paying and I have to put off the grocery shopping for a week.
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You are only as good as your last flight?
There's usually a trend.
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Your boss drives a flash car and takes holidays?
And how long have you been employed in the industry? When you own a company, you can do what you like, but you better develop some patience and intestinal fortitude first.
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Boss makes a mistake and blames you?
I'll blame whomever I please. If you don't think I'm being fair, then the company is for sale. You can buy it.
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What AWA? What Awards?
No one is chaining you to the job. You knew what you were getting into and you accepted. If you suddenly find yourself getting ideals and morals now, then leave! (Psssst. I'll let you in on a secret....don't tell the interviewers at the airline that you worked for less than the award in GA.) Are you seeing a trend here yet?
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You find out that your boss has only 2000hrs more than you but speaks as if he has 10 000hrs?
Tough! He's the boss and you're not. Get over it and do your job.
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Do you feel that you have outgrown the organisation/wised up on the boss and he is waiting for you to move on so he can prey on another newbie and get another year or two before they ask for a day rate/pay increase??
Yep, lose one sucker who takes the hours and runs and there's another 100 waiting outside the office door, three quarters of whom will work for free.
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Come on guys/girls....What's the go in your crazy GA charter work place????
Maybe GA is not the place for you. Stand up for yourself.
Last edited by Lodown : 7th November 2009 at 05:40.
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You have worked your butt off for the last 2 years and your boss tends to forget about this?
"Yep, not much to show for it, but even my laziest employee gets paid before I do, even during slow periods. I get what's left at the end of the day, week, month or year even if an employee screwed up and I had to pay more to get the job done than I made or bills need paying and I have to put off the grocery shopping for a week"
I think you hit the nail on the head here Lodown. I think a lot of people should remember that the boss has a lot more to worry about in terms of running the business than the line pilot does.
Someone much wiser than me once told me dont slag off your boss until you have walked a mile in his shoes so you can see what they have to deal with.
At the end of the day most of us are only going to spend a short period of time in GA, so its just easier to accept it for what it is and get on with it. At the end of the day its the bosses' train set and you play with the trains how they want you to.
How the attitudes of some operaters allow them to continue I do not know! Lowdown, well I see where you got your name from, you are so lowdown, in fact you are probably dragging your lip on the ground.
An attitude like that toward the people who are making you money is absolutely absurd! If you don't like having employees do the work yourself.
I suppose you are another PPL who got his CPL and had some cash and thought I know how to run the business better than anyone else. I bet you have no training set in place for employees and don't supply a day room for a 12 hour day, christ you probably don't supply accomadation for o'nighters.
To the thread starter, do your best learn what you can, whilst finding another job!
Location: UTC+10 hours (twenty years behind the rest of the world)
Age: 36
Posts: 502
Anybody that has worked a job outside aviation knows what its like to feel like an asset to the company, and have their contribution appreciated.
I don't know why GA attracts employers who have no idea of human resource managment. Not generalising, just a couple I have worked for..and a few more by the sounds of it!
What a load of absolute bullshit. I know of one employer in particular that goes out to all the new hires and says that they pay the award, then engage in a bit of sham contracting to con the lads out of the cash they rightfully deserve. Have heard stories from elsewhere that this is the case too.
I dont give a fcuk if your the employer and you think you can do what you want, you cant and sooner or later you will trip up and have egg on your face, and all those pilots you shafted will just think good riddance to bad rubbish.
Some people wise up and leave then get badmouthed by the sadistic boss who uses his position as a big dick and a super cock to make untruthful remarks. Somehow everyone who leaves has been in lots of accidents and incidents, has been logging BIC time, has below average skills requiring a lot of training.
Unfortunately the rest of the small aviation world also wises up and enquires into the qualifications of the said boss, and realises that he's nothing but spiteful and lies to cover up his inconsistencies. Ask what happened in his previous aviation experience, how did the bases under his control fare? How were they doing before, how were they doing after? If it stinks like bullshit it probably is
One can really see the how their GA boss has rubbed off on them..It shows in their reply
[quote]...I think you hit the nail on the head here Lodown. I think a lot of people should remember that the boss has a lot more to worry about in terms of running the business than the line pilot does.
Sure does, obviously CRM, TEM and Human Factors goes out the window as well???
Also we are talking about "Charter Pliots" not line pilots....
I hope the young newbies can display this thread to their parents etc etc so they can think twice on parting with 60k to 100k!!!!
Spend wisely and really get a heads up on who to work for. Not all GA boss's are sadistic!
I think a lot of people should remember that the boss has a lot more to worry about in terms of running the business than the line pilot does.
Certainly more than enough than to waste time deliberately trying to be sadistic to charter pilots. Yes, tongue in cheek. Let me ask a few questions in the same vein from a different perspective:
1. How puerile are your employees?
2. Are your employees constantly harassing you for undeserved pay rises?
3. How many employees do you have that think their experience after 2 years entitles them to run the company?
4. Do you have employees who are upset they don't have a Mercedes parked in the garage and a yacht in the marina?
You get the drift?
TL could do with a dose of reality. TL is looking for some sympathy in his initial immature and ill-considered post. A little dose of humility will serve him well and he needs to grow some cojones.
Sensational post Lowdown. Why is it that every pilot once they have 500 hours knows more than the boss. As long as there are newbies willing to work for nothing, conditions will never improve. If anyone on here thinks that the boss just makes up this working for free thing, I could post a few names of pilots that will.
I sympathise with the plight of finding good employees, and then dealing with ones who can conduct themselves in an interview but can't manage a proper days work.
With that said though from my experience working in non-aviation fields when a boss doesn't respect their employees they're never going to get the most out of them. If you find yourself collectively slagging them off in a forum maybe it's time to find something else to do with your life.
With that said though from my experience working in non-aviation fields when a boss doesn't respect their employees they're never going to get the most out of them.
Unfortunately as mentioned before GA really is a mug's game. The only industry in the world where hard work and keeping your head below the trench is actually detrimental to your personal and career progression. There are nasty employers, and indeed nasty employees.
It's not the job of running a GA company that turns these people into bad humans, often they are like that anyway. That goes for some pilots too.
Unfortunately for me and many around it is an industry we love and these people are simply traps you have to keep far away from.
There are a lot of little gems out there though with good honest people running them, unfortunately believe it or not though these places retain their staff so are a bit harder to get in to!
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