Well said Tailwheel. I get sick of the "I'm not getting paid enough" brigade AFTER they have AGREED to and ACCEPTED rubbish wages in the first place.
Walk away and look for a decent job!
And although it seems odd to do a course without doing this research first, good on this guy for asking around now and hopefully other newbies are reading this too.
If the employer tells you that you will have to get an ABN and be a "Contractor" then turn around and walk away. A flying instructor acts under the direction of the CFI at all times so it instrucing doesn't fall under the definition. Plus it could leave you with some very unpleasant insurance liabilities if something goes wrong. The only way we will stop these "You are a contractor" types is if no-one will work for them. Tell me I'm dreaming.
They undercut the employers who are doing the right thing because they wriggle out of super, compo etc. And they do it by telling the eager newbie that this is the only way they will ever get a start in the industry.
Well said CFI.
If looking for a flying school, research and see if there pilots are full time award pilots. If not, go else where. You will also find the quality of training will be higher at a more professional school who treats their instructors as professionals. It will pay off in the long term if you spend a little extra now.
Better still, look for a school who has an instructor or 2 who has seen some variety in the industry and can also mentor the younger instructors.
My first instructor was an ex AG pilot, Regional pilot and former Cat A (an old qualification). Having said that, I still fly like shite
Yes CFI. And I get bored to death in Dunnunda Forum with the repetitious number of posts and questions about "contractors", "rates of pay", "am I underpaid?" etc etc.
I simply can't understand how or why a mature, presumably rational person would decide to become a commercial pilot, fork out zillions of $$'s to a flying school, study CPL and learn to fly for a year or two - and still have no idea what return to expect on his/her investment!!!
A wise old mining company Managing Director once said to me: "A person is judged by the company they keep."
Junior instructors should be aware that if they work for free or below Award there is a 99% chance they are working for a cheap skate operator with less than acceptable standards and reputation.
Aviation is a small industry - by adding a shonky operator to your resume you are probably dooming any application for employment to rejection.
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Tail Wheel
Dunnunda Forum Moderator
Location: Pass A Frozzos library, where text books rule, YEAH!
Posts: 868
Quote:
Please do not come to PPRuNe and whine about being paid less than the Award or working under an employment agreement that is not in accordance with Australian industrial law. You can not contract out of your legal entitlements, your employer is acting unlawfully - and your complaints are boring!
Yep, ain't they wot!
You lot deserve to work until you are 30, end up with not a cent in the bank and learn a valuable lesson about undercutting and stabbing in the back
I was wraped with getting $24k for a years worth of FREE flying Better than the $30k i got WORKING in a servo. Although I did find out that for the time I worked at my first job I was and still am (for another year) entitled to $15k in underpaid wages.
Grade 3 instructor wages can be more easily calculated as exactly half your rent. A Grade 2 instructor gets longer flights between paying the rent. A Grade 1 instructor goes back to flying on one engine, even longer flights, and earning exactly half the rent.
To those of you who have taken the time to reply...Thank you.
However, from reading the posts I feel that some of you have interpreted this the wrong way. I am perfectly aware that the money earned is minimal. I can assure you that I am not so stupid as to start something I knew nothing about. But as I am unable at this time to move out of my current location I am unable to look at work other than instructing.
However, what I dont want is to work for 25 bucks an hour when the minimum hourly rate is say 50 bucks an hour? I simply want pointed in the right direction.
What I am also trying to attain is what YOU or your school pays its instructors. Are the majority of you instructors on salaries or paid by the hour? Do you get any perks with the particualr company YOU work for?
Parkbreak, by the sounds of it you're doing instructing as a means to an end with the intent to move onto charter when you can. Now before someone shoots this down, I did it as a means to an end but I did actually want to instruct and do love teaching. I'm not going to assume that you are anything other because I'm sure you've dealt with crappy instructors yourself.
If this is the case, then you need to factor this into your plan. You need to look beyond the hourly rate.
Some better paying, bigger schools look great but they can take more time to get on your feet and get decent hours. They will also limit your progression into charter. Smaller/cheaper schools will often see faster progression and often branch into more charter ops.
Ask the instructors at each school how long its taken them to get on their feet and the number of new students walking through the door. Also ask them a rough timeframe for progression onto charter, multi IFR training and finally greener pastures. The last thing to ask is a rough idea of their hours in the first and 2nd years.
If you're earning a great hourly rate (award) but doing stuff all hours with very slow progression you're in a far worse position than the guy raking in the hours. Remember that hours mean progression. The faster you build your hours the faster you move onto grade 2, 1 and multi IFR. Yeah, ok, its at a lesser pay rate to your peers but what about the guy you did your instructor rating with who's still a grade 3?
The final caution with my advice though; Good hours with a "dodgy" operator are always subject to high scrutiny. So ask around for what people think/say. Unfortunatly rumours are often worth more than facts in this industry.
N.B. I'm not saying do it for nothing or to offer yourself for less but if you have a choice dont just look at the hourly rate.
Makes you want to go and join a union.....AFAP ??? naaaahhh, don't think so, maybe we should start our own union and unionise the whole GA sector, f/instructors especially - mandatory membership guarantees a healthy income but not pay the same membership rates as AFAP naturally (even though I am usually against compulsory union membership but this is one industry that needs it badly !).
Comments welcome please....
"Please do not come to PPRuNe and whine about being paid less than the Award or working under an employment agreement that is not in accordance with Australian industrial law. You can not contract out of your legal entitlements, your employer is acting unlawfully - and your complaints are boring! "
Geez Tailwheel.............what the hell is the site for then???!!!
Perhaps YOU need to come out of your sheltered workshop and give helpful, well intentioned and RELEVANT advice for a newbie in the REAL dog eat dog world!
Not the rubbish that your good self and CFI have written above.
Waffle.....absolute mean spirited BORING waffle!!
Back in MY day blah blah blah.....Jesus! How boring is that!
Have a nice day girls!
I haven't bothered to ask the question on the forum, I have looked at the award on the AFAP site, while the rates at the end of the awards make sense the rest of it is a bit of a struggle, as awards normally are. It also seems there are a lot of people payed under and over it.
I have heard a lot of people carry on about their pay without actually saying what it is, they don't have to say, but it is of no information.
It would be good to hear I fly xxx aircraft as an xxx and earn roughly xx a year. Not as a bragging exercise but so newbies could actually see.
For the record, I have asked some people and from looking around I know what I can expect to earn and am delighted! More so for complete newbies.
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