FIFO Days Numbered

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

We have every facility you could ever require in a town

Jaba will vouch for that!

He is still trying to get his eyeballs back in his head after coming ..... ahhhh ....... face to face (?) with a "skimpy"!

Dr

[the wizard of auz]

Hehe. Yes a little bit of local culture is sometimes not such a bad thing.

[VH-UFO]

mmm

Hey Wiz,

are you talking about the town where Georgie and Queenie are from?

If so i would like to know how you educated your kids in year 11 and 12.

[blade root]

I have worked in one of the towns that has been mentioned in this thread for a good many years and the number of FIFO workers has increased 10 fold in that time....the town is now F$CKED.....

FIFO offers nothing to the local community, they are a burden on infrastructure (partners not working local shops, have to import labour) all the money leaves town and is spent elsewhere.


There is no respect for the town or it's surrounds. Crime has increased, getting assaulted because you got the last "mrs. mac's" in the pie warmer is a joke.

FIFO : Fit In or F^ck Off

[ZEEBEE]

Blade Root

FIFO offers nothing to the local community, they are a burden on infrastructure (partners not working local shops, have to import labour) all the money leaves town and is spent elsewhere.

That was precisely my point in post #10, however, it doesn't stop there; two places get screwed up, the source AND the destination.

The only people who win are the Air operators (not a bad thing) and the State govmints who get out of their responsibility to generate regional infrastructure.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

FIFO.....

Wasn't FIFO a 'by-product' of Keating's "Fringe Benefits Tax"?

I seem to recall that the cheaper rents offerred by the companies for on site houses for families, was seen as a 'Fringe Benefit' - i.e. some form of income over and above...and was then to be taxed accordingly....

Sort of negated the reason for going there - to a remote location for a time -say two years or so - to work hard and save for the home in Perth, or wherever.

So was born the FIFO idea. You go 'up there', work for the two weeks or so, live in a donga, and come home to the family - no 'Fringe Benefit' taxes.

Prior to the taxes, 'Mum, Dad, and the Kids(?) would all go to live in the 'towns' established by the larger mines - 'Dad' worked at the mine, 'Mum' worked in the town or at the Mine's admin. and the kids went to the local school which the mine was obliged to establish.

Or, have I mixed that up in my 'old age'...??

[the wizard of auz]

Hey Wiz,

are you talking about the town where Georgie and Queenie are from?

If so i would like to know how you educated your kids in year 11 and 12.

Yup, thats the town (although Georgey passed away.....only Queeny now, and shes gone all christian)
I educated my eldest boy through an agricultural college (he is now an overseer for a mining company owned pastrol company and runs nearly three million acres over four stations) next three were educated through SIDE. (School of Isolated Distance Education) with the assistance and resources of the local high school . All employed as soon as school finished. one as a apprentice heavy duty fitter, one is doing a chefs apprenticeship and the other is employed as a laborer. all employed locally and making more $$$ than their counter parts in the city.
Not all bad in the bush.

Prior to the taxes, 'Mum, Dad, and the Kids(?) would all go to live in the 'towns' established by the larger mines

Although true that the towns were established with the assistance of mining, it is not always the case. The town where I live was built around a mine, but grew as a support town to the districts pastoral industry. the town has existed for quite some time without the mine being a role player in the towns development. Most of these type of towns don't have the interaction of the mines like they had traditionally.

and the kids went to the local school which the mine was obliged to establish.

Also not the case any longer. the mine supply's what they feel is enough to rate a mention in a P&C meeting and nothing else. the school and teachers are state government supplied.
Most of the FIFO work these days is because the mine was established on or very close to the ore body, and not a town. there is 5 major mines in close proximity to the town where I live and most of the people living on site have never seen the town.
Much easier to control the workforce if you position them on site and you can use the withdrawal of accommodation to control what happens after work hours (nowhere to live = no employment. no need to justify yourself to a Union or face a court case for a dismissal for non work related incidences(fighting at the wetty or being an obnoxious prick when off shift, Etc) . the work force is also focused on the job, as there is close to no social aspect of living in a mine camp. Get in and do the job for two weeks and get out.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

FIFO...

Thanks 'Wiz', for the 'update'.

It has been some time since I was 'there'.
I remember when Wickham was built and the school established, the WA State Govt had a BIG problem when the Company of the time put in AIR CON.

No other school in the Pilbara had it at the time and they were concerned that the precedent had now been set....Bloody dinosaurs! Still, we all used to work in the 43deg or so then.
Back in my 'Good Days', I'd just climb up to A100 for relief - for a while anyway.

We lived 'on site' then, in the Company's Caravan Park, at various locations, but used the local Town facilities, shops, etc as well.

As an aside, I do remember the reaction from the 'locals' when Leinster was built - WOW! Shops! - FRESH fruit/veg/milk etc and Postal / tel services etc etc.

Cheers

[FGD135]

Good posts, ZEEBEE. You seem to be the only one recognising the disastrous impact on families that FIFO has.

Sure, building and maintaining towns is expensive, but so is FIFO. I reckon it must cost the WA miners upwards of $500 million per year to run FIFO.

[Skystar320]

I reckon it must cost the WA miners upwards of $500 million per year to run FIFO.

I can see you just plucked that figure from thin air, thats absurd..... No way it costs $500million a year

[ZEEBEE]

You seem to be the only one recognising the disastrous impact on families that FIFO has.

Thanks FGD.

I've travelled to all the "Mining" places over the last thirty yrs or so, and while I understand the motivation for FIFO, I have been moved by the damage it wreaks on families who often slowly drift apart.

Moreover, I've seen the deterioration of many of the centres that had thriving communities before FIFO and are now shells where there is simply no pride or involvment with the town/s.

I think we will probably look back on FIFO from a historical perspective (the only way you can, by the way) and recognise it for the disaster it is.

Maybe KRudd will even offer an apology, since they're going cheap these days.

[Towering Q]

So whose going to pay for all those lovely houses and high schools to be put in place, to make it more financially viable for miners to live in these towns?

State Nationals Leader Brendon Grylls and his "Royalties for the Regions" program, that's who.

There was a very good episode of Four Corners a while back that focused on Port Hedland and the many problems caused by FIFO.

BHP's Ravensthorpe Nickel Operations is an interesting one...

"BHP Billiton has committed to a residential workforce for the Operations phase and an estimated 350 project employees and many indirectly employed to support the project, and their families, will become part of the local community."

If I were employed in the Mining Industry, I would be taking up residence in Hopetoun in a flash. 20-30 minutes from work and you can go fishing with the family in the afternoon. Good work-life balance.

We get to the big smoke a couple of times a year, but only for as long as it takes to get the job done and get back out again.

Some good posts there Wiz....I'm with you on this one, great place to visit....cr@p place to live.

[FGD135]

I can see you just plucked that figure from thin air, thats absurd..... No way it costs $500million a year

Try doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations yourself. Here are mine:

$10K per hour operating costs for the "average" FIFO aircraft;
5 hours average round trip time;
1 round trip per day, 310 days per year;

16 flights out of YPPH in the morning and 16 in the afternoon, gives:

(16 + 16) x 310 x 5 x $10K = $496 million.

Of course, my figures (especially the 32 trips per day) are probably a little on the conservative side. And, I haven't allowed for profits on top of the base costs, nor the administrative and infrastructure costs directly attributable to FIFO.

Skystar320,

How much do you think FIFO costs the mining industry per year? And, can you show us your back-of-the-envelope calculations?

[wirgin blew]

FGD135 - you aren't including any of the east-west stuff that is done either. All the management types that fly east to west and back again. It would be interesting to find out just how much the mines are spending Australia wide on travel each year.

[Skystar320]

$10K per hour operating costs for the "average" FIFO aircraft;

What the hell are they chartering for that type of money

[Skystar320]

FGD135 - you aren't including any of the east-west stuff that is done either. All the management types that fly east to west and back again. It would be interesting to find out just how much the mines are spending Australia wide on travel each year.

Were actually just talking about the FIFO, not interstate travel.

[Skystar320]

Try doing some back-of-the-envelope calculations yourself. Here are mine:

$10K per hour operating costs for the "average" FIFO aircraft;
5 hours average round trip time;
1 round trip per day, 310 days per year;

16 flights out of YPPH in the morning and 16 in the afternoon, gives:

(16 + 16) x 310 x 5 x $10K = $496 million.

Okay, If I use your figures here is what I get

32 Flights a day (16 in the morning, 16 in the evening)

x $10,000 an hour [what the hell are they chartering?] = $320,000 per day.

Hence 'if' the operation was a 5day operation you would see approx 9,920 flights a year for FIFO

Taking on average of 9,920 x $10,000 per hour I get = $99.2million

[mdt001]

Griffo,

Spot on. F.B.T was charged on the difference between the rent charged (which was heavily discounted to attract a workforce) and what was assessed as a fair market rental. This silly move on its own meant the death of company housing in mining towns.

The cost of company built housing was straight line depreciated over 10 years. F.I.F.O. costs are expensed in the year they are incurred.

F.I.F.O. will continue as long as we keep digging holes in the ground.

[185skywagon]

Skystar320,
I don't think you have factored in the trip time per flight, in your calculations.

185.

[Skystar320]

No, I'm using $10k per flight

Anway I remember recently an airline using a jet won a $10million contract for a mining destination using jet equipment

I still dont think we fork out $500m just on FIFO, unless the charter companies are incredibly rich!