Ahh Flying Binghi you must be a newspaper editor by trade, nothing like taking someone's quote, chopping it up and re-printing it completely out of context to make someone appear as if they are saying something that they actually are not.
Those Barwon Heads people have their own thread ( or 10 threads ) and i am content to let them keep it to themselves - unless i feel that safety is somehow compromised then i will let them know about it. I just felt that the one post i had made on their thread related slightly to the topic at hand and that i might share it here.
I think a lot of the Professional Pilots around here are in need of a funny bone transplant.
Jaba, curious as to which side of the fence you sit on?
Can you imagine a weekend warrior in a Jab requesting an airways clearance on a busy morning in Melbourne?
"Aaaahh All stations Melbourne ah Radar Jabiru 12345 is at ah overhead Point Cook at about one thousand, four hundred and sixty ah five feet tracking for XXX request clearance, oh yeah on climb ah four thousand. Oh and Robbo is behind me in a Gazelle and he wants to do the same ah thing ah all stations Melbourne Approach - i mean ah Melbourne Radar"
Ahh Flying Binghi you must be a newspaper editor by trade
povopilot, You obviously hav'nt read much of my barely literate writing
The comments re the Bar-one, bar room brawls were just me wanting to stay away from the subject of the fiasco that happened there. Sounds like it all worked out for the better
"Aaaahh All stations Melbourne ah Radar Jabiru 12345 is at ah overhead Point Cook at about one thousand, four hundred and sixty ah five feet tracking for XXX request clearance, oh yeah on climb ah four thousand. Oh and Robbo is behind me in a Gazelle and he wants to do the same ah thing ah all stations Melbourne Approach - i mean ah Melbourne Radar"
Probably a lot more understandable than the commercial students who have passed the language test or am I hearing static all the time.
You are hearing static all the time because you are deaf.
Interesting comment regarding the Gazelle following. Quite often they do all fly around together as groups and it does make radio work and clearances complicated. If GA wasn't so expensive, the same would be happening there. It's called recreational flying!
Jaba sits on both sides of the fence as he is a former recreational aviator!
Povopilot
Which side of the fence do I sit on....? Well its definately GA. I do try my best to be as accurate and professional in my flying activities and if Forkie or Chuck or a couple of others on here who have flown with me wish to say otherwise I am all ears and willing to learn.
I do however have a very strong feeling that my comments posted last night are quite accurate and well founded. Some of the offenders are people I know and I try to encourage to higher standards. Some are from stories told and some observed so really it would not matter which side of the fence I sit. Facts are Facts.
A local area RAA instructor who is a well known croppie also has some similar and harsh views also. And he instructs for RAA and owns a flight school. Another one who like the two at YCAB does not let students loose with the bare mins.
I do have an RAA license for times when I have to fly a RAA registered machine, and I do believe they have a place in the industry, provided certain standards are maintained. I also believe that the R in RAA is meant to be recreational and thus should stay that way and look after its members at the grass roots level. All I see today is RAA folk wanting bigger and faster and CSU and Retract and CTA and as if it is a god given right almost. Why not do the GA thing and do it properly and leave the RAA to do what it does best.
I think a lot of the trouble is some old fella's who grew up on lawn mower powered craft not allowed nor capable of flight above 300' and about 5 miles still in the syetem with a 2 seat Jabby that does 100 knots and ranges up to 1000NM. they have never done radio and Navigation/Cross country endorsements and have not see a rule book in 20 years let alone NAS changes. A current ERSA is one printed in the last 5 years at best and as for charts and planning...............
And there are worse..... If someone from the RAA would want to pursue this in a constructive and non threatening manner I would gladly meet with them and guide them through the camo that some hide behind.
If the CTA endo gets through, it might be good, guys like the ATPL holders etc will get it automatically I expect, but the others may actually have to do some real current flight training again and not a dodgy BFR. Others I fear will just say .... who will ever know and be exactly like the quoted example above from povopilot. And do not laugh....... it will happen!
I am a former RAAus CFI. Despite its shortcomings, I like the RAAus system... to a point.
That point will be passed when the system's shortcomings are overlooked for political expediency, and it will be passed very soon if VH-XXX's claims are correct.
I will probably get shot for this, but what the heck.
RAAus has a conflict of interest:
RAAus are in a position of needing to build membership in order to justify and increase their political muscle. The wider they can cast the net (high performance, increased TOW, CTA access, etc) the more members they can get and the wider they can cast the net, etc.
Safety regulation sparks calls of "curtailed freedoms" and "lost rights"... and RAAus cannot afford to lose members.
Safety staff (of 3) ruled by a political board:
RAAus is NOT set up to police these operations and a good look over the Rec Flying Forums will show you that strong action by the Ops Manager to pull pilot Certificates or School approvals could have political repercussions for the brave soul performing that function.
Unqualified Staff?
CASA specify strict experience requirements for people in VH- supervisory roles, and the greater your responsibility (eg: C&T or CFI of a ME IFR Instructor school) the higher the requirement and the tougher the grilling.
RAAus has one Operations Manager with a couple of helpers overseeing 5,000 pilots and well over 100 flying schools spread all over Australia. It is, arguably, the biggest "operator" in Australia and being responsible for some of those guys would be like herding cats.
What are the minimum qualifications for Ops Manager? Where is it published? What level of diligence does CASA apply to the appointment of the Ops Manager? (Note: I am not attacking the current Ops Manager or his predecessors)
No effective oversight by the REAL regulator:
CASA wash their hands of RAAus operations and refer all matters back to RAAus. As a RAAus CFI I made several complaints to CASA which were not acted on (and could not be acted on). CASA need to remember that RAAus are a self-ADMINISTRATION body, not a self-regulating body. RAAus also need to remember this.
NO safety management system
...or if there is one, certainly no enforcement or policing that it is implemented. Accidents and near-misses are (certainly in my neighbourhood) covered up whenever possible and so there is a lack of information on the number and type of accidents and incidents. From a "safety system" point of view, this is the opposite to the culture that exisits (to varying degrees, I admit ) in VH aviation.
What are the REAL safety figures in RAAus Ops?
Ponder this:
The Australian aviation regulatory system is designed to ICAO standards. Part of that standard is ensuring that all participants in the system are fit (ie: have aviation medical certification) and are trained to a standard (ie: have a LICENCE), that the aircraft are designed maintained to a standard, and are subject to a system of active safety management.
Until now these UNLICENCED pilots have enjoyed a range of freedoms, subject to limitations. In relation to airspace, these limitations have included
not above 5000' AMSL unless forced by terrain (no other reason); and
Not in CTA unless licenced, medically certified, and in a certified aircraft design.
In removing these limitations what is CASA doing the layers of safety and redundancy we have built around the "regulated" aviation system in Australia?
I urge all of you to lodge incident reports when you observe these incidents. We all see them. When RAAus allows CTA on a rec pilot certificate there will be an increase in the number and seriousness of these incidents too.
RAAus responsible for C152s, anyone? Why don't we just up it to 4 seats?
Last edited by Horatio Leafblower : 8th October 2008 at 14:00.
This is my first "negative" post, so go easy on me, otherwise I may not do it again.
I have to agree with the general feel of this thread that there are some real skills/attitude issues in RaAus that are a concern.
I spent a few years working at a small airfield (south-east Melb) where both an RAA and GA school operated. During my time there the RAA school had two very different CFI's.
During the reign of the first, minimum hour targets were always acheived and between him and his deputy doolittle there was a deliberate promotion of anti-GA sentiment which extended to the odd dangerous in-flight discruption of GA charter flights (including a deliberate reduction of speed on base/final to force a PA31 to go-around. During his reign there was always incidents occuring: Transiting East Sale with a radio and chosing not to use it - the explanation given was "I didin't realise I needed a clearance", poeple getting lost, busting CTA, running low on fuel etc. Now I know this occurs in GA as well, but the rate of occurances was significantly higher.
I too also noticed when trying to assist some of the students/licence holders that they had never seen/been shown ERCs, PCA or NAIPS (and didn't have ERSAs). I remeber one student asking me how do get your frequencies once you leave the coverage of the VNC!!!
Anyway, once the new CFI came along, things did change quite a bit. He taught to high standards and was respectfull in sharing the airspace etc.
So I am not saying this is not possible.
I do also beleive from my time there that part of the problem can be the students as well. The demographics of RAA (at least at that airport) tended to be people who were looking to fly, but at the cheapest price and in the shortest time. No interest in theory or procedures, just wanted to be in the air. So how can you change that attitude?
I'm with the Leafblower on this one: if they're dangerous and you have their call sign, report them. The rules are there to keep everyone safe, and people ignore them at their peril, unfortunately also at others' peril.
As for the dodgy RAA "ATO" who hands out BFR's for nothing, anyone who can identify this wker, and for that matter anyone else with a similar modus operandi, please name and shame them here, or send me a PM and we'll see what we can do about it. I think I would start with a friendly letter to RAA to investigate themselves, if there was no outcome, on to CASA
On the point of extending RAA privileges, I would think that CASA will make sure (if anything, to cover their own backside, they seem to be good at that) that licensing and training of such pilots is up to scratch.
Unfortunately methinks it will take an accident to bring about change to cowboy practices like the ones many people here have witnessed.
The stories of wayward RAA fibreglass bombers getting in the way of IFR traffic made me think (and sweat ): does anyone know of any incidents/accidents that ended up on public record? Would be interesting to go through stuff, there may be learning points in such reports..
I do agree CASA will require strict training etc and I hope that is what will happen, and from some schools I expect it to be on par with a good GA school. there is no reason why not. All in all it should work.
The problem lies in a group of folk who just blast off regardless. That is very hard to control and educate. Nobody officially knows who they may be! This is the same as those who know of folk out west who would fly in to town, park at the pub, have 3 or 4 beers, fly back to the homestead, buzz the house and someone would turn on the car/tractor headlights so they could land. GA has had its fair share. And some became worm fodder for their efforts.
Just another example has come to mind. Nobody will officially come out and say this, but discussions I have been around suggest many others think the same way with respect to Transponders and ADSB. They dont want big brother watching over them. And the story goes on about skirting around CTA steps......or perhaps being 1000' into them.....but undetected. I am not saying that they go deliberately blasting thru CTA and on 126.7...... but it happens, and mostly through the lack of navigating and planning around CTA. If there are any ATC's watching from BRIS/SYD/MEL Radar, I would be interested to hear what they think they see.
J
Disclaimer: I am not ANTI RAA..... Just the % of cowboys needs reducing.
.
) in VH aviation. 
ker, and for that matter anyone else with a similar modus operandi, please name and shame them here, or send me a PM and we'll see what we can do about it. 
I think I would start with a friendly letter to RAA to investigate themselves, if there was no outcome, on to CASA 
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