Apple Hamsterwheel
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Apple Hamsterwheel
This thread is for the perennial Apple arguments that occur with wearying and pointless regularity.
I suspect that I won't need to make it a sticky.
Apologies to JosuaNkomo for using his post as the starter for 10...
SD
I suspect that I won't need to make it a sticky.
Apologies to JosuaNkomo for using his post as the starter for 10...
SD
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" The closed garden of Apple world, iTunes App store".
Just believe me when I say you're making mountains out of molehills on that. Its a myth, a misunderstanding.
Anybody can write Apps an put them up on the App store. Its not a closed garden.
And when you take a minute to bother to understand the security architecture of the iPhone/iPad devices, you will understand and appreciate why Apple hosts software on the App Store !
Don't go bashing the competition unless you have a thorough technical understanding of what you're talking about !
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Gee mixture look what I just learned.
" Using an open platform a developer could add features or functionality that the platform vendor had not completed or had not conceived of. An open platform allows the developer to change existing functionality, as the specifications are publicly available open standards."
" A closed platform, walled garden or closed ecosystem is a software system where the carrier or service provider has control over applications, content, and media, and restricts convenient access to non-approved applications or content. This is in contrast to an open platform, where consumers have unrestricted access to applications, content, and much more."
Apple iOS and other mobile devices, which are restricted to running pre-approved applications from a digital distribution service are examples of a closed platform.
Now as a simple user of a product I really could not give a rats arse about the security architecture of the device I use as long as long as I am reasonable confident that my browsing and purchasing habits don't compromise my internet security.
You strike me as having a " Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned " mentality when it comes to Apple products.
PS. I don't believe I was bashing the opposition at all and my lack of " technical " understanding should not preclude me from my opinion on using a device.
" Using an open platform a developer could add features or functionality that the platform vendor had not completed or had not conceived of. An open platform allows the developer to change existing functionality, as the specifications are publicly available open standards."
" A closed platform, walled garden or closed ecosystem is a software system where the carrier or service provider has control over applications, content, and media, and restricts convenient access to non-approved applications or content. This is in contrast to an open platform, where consumers have unrestricted access to applications, content, and much more."
Apple iOS and other mobile devices, which are restricted to running pre-approved applications from a digital distribution service are examples of a closed platform.
Now as a simple user of a product I really could not give a rats arse about the security architecture of the device I use as long as long as I am reasonable confident that my browsing and purchasing habits don't compromise my internet security.
You strike me as having a " Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned " mentality when it comes to Apple products.
PS. I don't believe I was bashing the opposition at all and my lack of " technical " understanding should not preclude me from my opinion on using a device.
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Apple iOS and other mobile devices, which are restricted to running pre-approved applications from a digital distribution service are examples of a closed platform.
Anybody can write an App and put it on the App Store.
Therefore by its very definition it is not a closed platform. In the same way as Android and Microsoft, Apple provide developer APIs and its up to the developers to write the code.
The approval process is pretty much entirely a security process in order to ensure, for example, that :
- Apps do not attempt to run security exploits on the devices
- Apps do not attempt to claim more privileges than they formally declare (e.g. developer uses microphone but does not declare this using the API interface ... Apple are strong on privacy and make it mandatory that stuff like microphones and camera use requires user permission and hence developers have to code stuff accordingly in order to ensure users are given a chance to explicitly authorise access)
The other smaller element of the approval process covers blatantly obvious common sense stuff that any good developer should cover by default (e.g. no buggy crashing apps).
Given the amount of time, effort and money that goes into writing a quality App for a device, the Apple approval process is quite frankly a very minor hoop to go through. Which is why you are making mountains out of molehills. Any competent and experienced programmer won't have any problems getting their App approved.
It's a walled garden in the sense that you can't just grab any old software from any old source and install it, and that Apple can pull an app if they feel the need. The wall is pretty low but it's there.
Is this a good thing? That's the real argument. For the vast majority of users the answer would have to be yes because they're downloading software from a trusted source. It doesn't eliminate the risk of malware entirely but is shed load better than the roulette of downloading from whatever random site you find with Google as for Windows.
Is this a good thing? That's the real argument. For the vast majority of users the answer would have to be yes because they're downloading software from a trusted source. It doesn't eliminate the risk of malware entirely but is shed load better than the roulette of downloading from whatever random site you find with Google as for Windows.
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There is an App that I use often. It's called "WiFiFoFum": it's a WiFi scanner - it checks all the WiFi channels to see which are in use. It's essential when troubleshooting misbehaving WiFi installations, to find a clear piece of spectrum.
It was available from the App Store until a couple of years (or so) ago. Then it was pulled, and soon after that the (paid for) copy on my iPhone was deleted (by Apple, I assume, because I certainly didn't). I contacted the developer, and got a standard reply that Apple had pulled it because it "contravened their policy". It was then offered on Cydia, so I jailbroke my iPhone and reinstalled it. It still works well. It means I can't update to the latest iOS until that's been jailbroken, but with all the problems recently that is probably a good thing.
Recently, another App was launched on the Apple Store, also called WiFiFoFum, which does something completely different. Sneaky, I thought.
If it's not a closed garden, it's one with a strict head gardener who won't allow just anything on his patch.
It was available from the App Store until a couple of years (or so) ago. Then it was pulled, and soon after that the (paid for) copy on my iPhone was deleted (by Apple, I assume, because I certainly didn't). I contacted the developer, and got a standard reply that Apple had pulled it because it "contravened their policy". It was then offered on Cydia, so I jailbroke my iPhone and reinstalled it. It still works well. It means I can't update to the latest iOS until that's been jailbroken, but with all the problems recently that is probably a good thing.
Recently, another App was launched on the Apple Store, also called WiFiFoFum, which does something completely different. Sneaky, I thought.
If it's not a closed garden, it's one with a strict head gardener who won't allow just anything on his patch.
"Anybody can write an App and put it on the App Store."
As long as that anybody has an Apple Macintosh computer, can be bothered to learn Objective C and is willing to pay the $99 dollar annual iOS Developer Program fee.
Android has lower barriers to entry. Any old PC. Job done.
As long as that anybody has an Apple Macintosh computer, can be bothered to learn Objective C and is willing to pay the $99 dollar annual iOS Developer Program fee.
Android has lower barriers to entry. Any old PC. Job done.
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As long as that anybody has an Apple Macintosh computer, can be bothered to learn Objective C and is willing to pay the $99 dollar annual iOS Developer Program fee.
(a) Most decent programmers will already know C/C++ .... Objective C is not a major stretch, its a strict superset of C !
(b) It is possible to use C/C++ for the back-end of a program and Objective C for the User Interface only.
(c) Objective C has many benefits (e.g. memory management ... a traditional thorn in the side of many a developer ! )
(d) Swift is even easier to use than Objective C for the first-time newbie programmers
(e) In the grand scheme of things, given the time, effort and money that goes into developing apps $99 is a walk in the park. And for the majority of developers is nothing but a minor business expense.
(f) Nothing stopping you writing Objective C source code on Windows ! You only need XCode for compiling and signing.
Android has lower barriers to entry.
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Octane, I sincerely hope that somewhere in this largely irrelevant soap box standing, arm waving argument, there is some snippet that helps answer your question, which you appear to have asked in all innocence.
I once asked for assistance on this forum about a computer issue. I never bother now because the threads always seem to get hijacked by an Apple salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturer's product.
I once asked for assistance on this forum about a computer issue. I never bother now because the threads always seem to get hijacked by an Apple salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturer's product.
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Agreed. Mixture WTF ? As my parting shot this is from the Guardian Newspaper.
Digital rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation’s new app will only be available for Android smartphones, in protest at the terms of Apple’s developer agreement for app makers.
The EFF Alerts app will deliver news on its campaigns, and encourage people to “take action” accordingly, for example by sharing details on social networks or emailing politicians about specific policies.
“Sadly, though, we had to leave out Apple devices and the folks who use them. Why? Because we could not agree to the outrageous terms in Apple’s Developer Agreement and Apple’s DRM requirements,” wrote EFF intellectual property director Corynne McSherry.
“As we have been saying for years now, the Developer Agreement is bad for developers and users alike,” she continued, in a blog post outlining a few of the terms that the EFF disagrees with.
They include Apple’s bar on developers making public statements about the terms; its ban on reverse engineering or helping others reverse engineer iOS or its software development kit; its requirement that apps developed using that SDK be distributed through the App Store only; and clauses stressing that Apple must approve any bug fixes or security releases, and can remotely disable apps at any time.
McSherry added that the final straw for the EFF was the requirement to include digital rights management (DRM) in its iPhone app.
By September, there were 1.3m apps available on iOS’ App Store. Apple has also regularly published details of its payouts to iOS developers: more than $20bn by July 2014, with iOS users spending more than $10bn on apps and in-app purchases in 2013 alone.
However, as Apple enters 2015, it is facing more public criticism of its policies, not just from the EFF, but from some iOS developers too.
Influential developer Marco Arment made headlines earlier this month with a blog post pointing to “the rapid decline of Apple’s software”, although he later criticised journalists for taking his harsher words out of context from the piece.Meanwhile, developers Cromulent Labs and Panic both went public in December over approval issues with features in their iOS apps, sparking wider discussion about how Apple enforces its App Store policies.This debate will continue in 2015, with the EFF keen to widen it to pinpoint the individual clauses that it thinks are infringing developers’ digital rights.
Digital rights group the Electronic Frontier Foundation’s new app will only be available for Android smartphones, in protest at the terms of Apple’s developer agreement for app makers.
The EFF Alerts app will deliver news on its campaigns, and encourage people to “take action” accordingly, for example by sharing details on social networks or emailing politicians about specific policies.
“Sadly, though, we had to leave out Apple devices and the folks who use them. Why? Because we could not agree to the outrageous terms in Apple’s Developer Agreement and Apple’s DRM requirements,” wrote EFF intellectual property director Corynne McSherry.
“As we have been saying for years now, the Developer Agreement is bad for developers and users alike,” she continued, in a blog post outlining a few of the terms that the EFF disagrees with.
They include Apple’s bar on developers making public statements about the terms; its ban on reverse engineering or helping others reverse engineer iOS or its software development kit; its requirement that apps developed using that SDK be distributed through the App Store only; and clauses stressing that Apple must approve any bug fixes or security releases, and can remotely disable apps at any time.
McSherry added that the final straw for the EFF was the requirement to include digital rights management (DRM) in its iPhone app.
“Lots of developers hold their nose and sign the agreement despite these onerous conditions, and that’s understandable. The Apple App store is a huge market and hard to ignore if you want your business to succeed.
And sometimes, developers have to weigh these onerous restrictions against not just their ability to survive financially, but also their ability to reach and protect users from snooping and censorship.”
McSherry is right about the “lots” – Apple had more than 9m registered developers for its Mac and iOS platforms by June 2014, according to figures shared by chief executive Tim Cook during his keynote at the company’s WWDC show.And sometimes, developers have to weigh these onerous restrictions against not just their ability to survive financially, but also their ability to reach and protect users from snooping and censorship.”
By September, there were 1.3m apps available on iOS’ App Store. Apple has also regularly published details of its payouts to iOS developers: more than $20bn by July 2014, with iOS users spending more than $10bn on apps and in-app purchases in 2013 alone.
However, as Apple enters 2015, it is facing more public criticism of its policies, not just from the EFF, but from some iOS developers too.
Influential developer Marco Arment made headlines earlier this month with a blog post pointing to “the rapid decline of Apple’s software”, although he later criticised journalists for taking his harsher words out of context from the piece.Meanwhile, developers Cromulent Labs and Panic both went public in December over approval issues with features in their iOS apps, sparking wider discussion about how Apple enforces its App Store policies.This debate will continue in 2015, with the EFF keen to widen it to pinpoint the individual clauses that it thinks are infringing developers’ digital rights.
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Criticism of Apple products is fine.
Apple bashing, i.e groundless and blatantly incorrect criticism of Apple products is not.
There is a difference.
There are a number of people here on PPRuNe who take much delight in simply bashing Apple because its the fashionable thing to do.
Of course, I would rather you don't bother criticising other products (irrespective of manaufacturer) and just get on with using the product you personally prefer .... but even that seems to be too much of an ask for some poeple !
Apple bashing, i.e groundless and blatantly incorrect criticism of Apple products is not.
There is a difference.
There are a number of people here on PPRuNe who take much delight in simply bashing Apple because its the fashionable thing to do.
Of course, I would rather you don't bother criticising other products (irrespective of manaufacturer) and just get on with using the product you personally prefer .... but even that seems to be too much of an ask for some poeple !
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I don't really care what you guys want to call it. I am happy being in Apple's garden. I can let them worry about the black-hats that are lurking out there.
Since moving to IOS X a decade or so ago, I've never had a virus, a Trojan, or any other Malware. Yes, I realise Apple is not perfect and sh*t could happen one day, but it certainly won't happen everyday/week/month. I am cautious but am happy that Apple does the heavy lifting for me.
So I miss out on some Apps, or some features. It's worth it.
Not everyone will agree with me, but that's OK - I won't try and change your mind.
Since moving to IOS X a decade or so ago, I've never had a virus, a Trojan, or any other Malware. Yes, I realise Apple is not perfect and sh*t could happen one day, but it certainly won't happen everyday/week/month. I am cautious but am happy that Apple does the heavy lifting for me.
So I miss out on some Apps, or some features. It's worth it.
Not everyone will agree with me, but that's OK - I won't try and change your mind.
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Top marks SD for putting this in one place 
Relevant news: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/1...ile-app-iphone
Relevant news: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/1...ile-app-iphone
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Adobe have a software tool (can't remember the name) that lets you convert an Android app into an Apple app and vicy-vercy. So what's the big deal.
Never really understood these hardcore us/them arguments. Apple have the best end-user interface by far, and Linux has the most versatile server platform by far, whereas Microsoft seem to be lost in the plot someplace inbetween.
Learn to use and appreciate all three for what they are good at and you will be better off.
Never really understood these hardcore us/them arguments. Apple have the best end-user interface by far, and Linux has the most versatile server platform by far, whereas Microsoft seem to be lost in the plot someplace inbetween.
Learn to use and appreciate all three for what they are good at and you will be better off.
As a non computer savvy person, the whole Apple experience is and has been a pleasure. The very odd malfunction is quickly resolved, usually by a restart in most cases, virus' as common as unicorn poo and most functions instinctive. For those who have a long and competent history of computing it most likely is too restrictive and vanilla. I'm happy that Apple are controlling the flow of 'things' into the system, even if it restricts great apps from being released. It's not as if there's a shortage of apps….
SHJ
SHJ
Googls's Android might be an 'open' architecture but their business model makes Apple's look like a paragon of virtue.
Google exists to collect data on you and your lifestyle, and sell it - the whole business revolves round advertising.
Apple exists to make great products AND yes, make a profit. It's that simple. Cheesy? Yes, but that's it.
Who was it who said "with Google, you aren't the customer, you're the product"?
If you don't like Apple's business model, products, prices, OSX, iOS or any other part of them, DON'T BUY THEM!
Funny, the OP appears to be an Android salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturers product...
An excellent example of why Apple's iOS has made huge inroads into many corporate and vertical markets, while Android hasn't...
The walled garden was adopted by Apple because, traditionally, applications for mobile devices were expensive, difficult to find, insecure and generally of poor quality. Apple wanted an environment where applications were easy to find, easy to purchase, easy to install and showcased the device. In order to combat security problems and increase buyer confidence, Apple chose a curated store. By definition therefore, Apple's approach is about control.
However, the restrictions on marking memory as executable (thus preventing JIT or compilers from working), is purely a security issue. The point is to try and prevent a third-party from finding and exploiting security holes in apps that will allow unfettered native code execution. And, you'll notice that the combination of a walled garden and various security mechanisms have resulted in a much, much, much more secure experience for iOS devices then for Android devices.
Google exists to collect data on you and your lifestyle, and sell it - the whole business revolves round advertising.
Apple exists to make great products AND yes, make a profit. It's that simple. Cheesy? Yes, but that's it.
Who was it who said "with Google, you aren't the customer, you're the product"?
If you don't like Apple's business model, products, prices, OSX, iOS or any other part of them, DON'T BUY THEM!
I once asked for assistance on this forum about a computer issue. I never bother now because the threads always seem to get hijacked by an Apple salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturer's product.
on a PC or Mac or Linux box I can write code to shut it down, change the screen resolution, change the volume, change what the hardware buttons do, etc. etc.
The walled garden was adopted by Apple because, traditionally, applications for mobile devices were expensive, difficult to find, insecure and generally of poor quality. Apple wanted an environment where applications were easy to find, easy to purchase, easy to install and showcased the device. In order to combat security problems and increase buyer confidence, Apple chose a curated store. By definition therefore, Apple's approach is about control.
However, the restrictions on marking memory as executable (thus preventing JIT or compilers from working), is purely a security issue. The point is to try and prevent a third-party from finding and exploiting security holes in apps that will allow unfettered native code execution. And, you'll notice that the combination of a walled garden and various security mechanisms have resulted in a much, much, much more secure experience for iOS devices then for Android devices.
Avoid imitations
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Quote:
Funny, the OP appears to be an Android salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturers product...
Funny, the OP appears to be an Android salesman who cannot tolerate the existence of any other manufacturers product...
He asked for comments about the use of a particular windows based device. As often happens, replies were about the superiority of Apple.
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If you don't like Apple's business model, products, prices, OSX, iOS or any other part of them, DON'T BUY THEM!
Yup, fundamentally that's the exact point I'm trying to make.
Its a highly competitive market, there's Apple, Android and Microsoft all vying for attention from the same human beings.
So, as the old saying goes .... you pays your money and you takes your choice.
There is absolutely no need to then go around bashing the competition based on personal opinions that are more often than not complete codswallop bull excrement !
People should just shut up and go enjoy their new purchases instead rather than engage in groundless and blatantly incorrect criticism of the competitive product !