25 dead in military plane crash in Venezuela
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25 dead in military plane crash in Venezuela
BBC News
Civilian and military rescue squads search 22 August, 2004, through the wreckage of a military airplane that crashed Saturday in a mountainous region in northeastern Venezuela, killing all 25 passengers.(Xinhua/AFP Photo)
Civilian and military rescue squads search 22 August, 2004, through the wreckage of a military airplane that crashed Saturday in a mountainous region in northeastern Venezuela, killing all 25 passengers.(Xinhua/AFP Photo)
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Further reports indicate that the aircraft was a Shorts 360 and that at most of the passengers were civilians, with half of them being children under the age of 10. The aircraft was enroute from a resort at La Orchila island, a summer vacation destination, to Maracay.
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La Orchila island is not a summer/vacation destination. In fact it is an unhabited island that has a naval post and an airstrip. This is where Chavez was taken during the failed 2002 coup. He was expected to be flown to Cuba from there.
Regretfully, Chavez goverment has been using military aircraft in a daily basis to fly goverment officials and their families to many venezuelan islands, especially Los Roques archipelago, for free. This is why there were many children aboard this plane that sadly crashed.
May those souls rest in peace.
Regretfully, Chavez goverment has been using military aircraft in a daily basis to fly goverment officials and their families to many venezuelan islands, especially Los Roques archipelago, for free. This is why there were many children aboard this plane that sadly crashed.
May those souls rest in peace.
New problem? I think not!
Luisde8cd
I quote: 'Regretfully, Chavez government has been using military aircraft in a daily basis to fly government officials and their families to many Venezuelan islands'
I don't agree. This is not a new problem. It has been common practice, not just by Chavez government, but by all governments in the last four decades to use military aircraft for VIP, leisure, etc. flights.
Sadly, since training and maintenance standards are so low, quite a few of these flights end up in a heap.
I feel sorry for the passengers, crews, and relatives... all victims of a decaying military aviation.
verticalflight
I quote: 'Regretfully, Chavez government has been using military aircraft in a daily basis to fly government officials and their families to many Venezuelan islands'
I don't agree. This is not a new problem. It has been common practice, not just by Chavez government, but by all governments in the last four decades to use military aircraft for VIP, leisure, etc. flights.
Sadly, since training and maintenance standards are so low, quite a few of these flights end up in a heap.
I feel sorry for the passengers, crews, and relatives... all victims of a decaying military aviation.
verticalflight
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I never said it's a new problem. I know it has happened before, pre-chavez governments were bad, but not as bad as Chavez's. Chavez has been using military a/c for civilian use WAY MORE OFTEN than before, and that's a fact.
Now they even fly to La Orchila, which is an unhabited island that was almost non-accessible to civilians, since the navy uses it for training and only has a military airstrip.
Now they even fly to La Orchila, which is an unhabited island that was almost non-accessible to civilians, since the navy uses it for training and only has a military airstrip.
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This accident, and the concerns expressed on this forum and no doubt on the streets of Venezuela, reminds me of a CFIT accident at Bluefields, Nicaragua on January 21, 1999 of a Nicaraguan Air Force Antonov AN-26. In that accident most of the occupants were also civilian family members of people in the military. All 28 occupants perished.
There are two ways to look at the situation, I guess. One is that the practice of transporting civilians, not in support of a military mission (ie., Search & Rescue or government business) is very unusual compared to the practice of most Western armed forces (ie., Nato and other European countries). On the other hand, is there such a big deal if military family members fill empty seats on routine transport flights? In a way, this is not unlike non-revenue privledges that the families of airline personnel receive.
The safety record of these military transport operations, as far as I can see, is no worse than that of regional airlines in that particular region.
A different practice that I find disturbing, however, with respect to militaries is that many have the luxury of indulging in business other than the defense and security of the country. In numerous countries both inside and outside of this region, militaries are also in the hotel, airline, and other businesses, making them also an economic force to be reconed with.
There are two ways to look at the situation, I guess. One is that the practice of transporting civilians, not in support of a military mission (ie., Search & Rescue or government business) is very unusual compared to the practice of most Western armed forces (ie., Nato and other European countries). On the other hand, is there such a big deal if military family members fill empty seats on routine transport flights? In a way, this is not unlike non-revenue privledges that the families of airline personnel receive.
The safety record of these military transport operations, as far as I can see, is no worse than that of regional airlines in that particular region.
A different practice that I find disturbing, however, with respect to militaries is that many have the luxury of indulging in business other than the defense and security of the country. In numerous countries both inside and outside of this region, militaries are also in the hotel, airline, and other businesses, making them also an economic force to be reconed with.
luisde8cd:
The Navy uses the Island very rarely for gunship training. They can't spare many shots for training, so they do it only once a year.
Civilians have visited La Orchila since early 60s. In the 90s, the Navy had a scheduled flight on which you could get on to spend the weekend on the island if you were a relative/friend of Navy personnel. The Navy would fly you on their Dash 7, so that you could have a nice weekend on Playa Rosada.
On top of that, VIP (civilians) would fly to the Island on helicopters (I flew them a few times), whilst Transport ships with a crew of 100+ men would made a 10 hour voyage from La Guaira to the Island to bring refreshments and ice cubes. Yes... ice cubes!
Civilian top personnel would throw long parties to indulge their friends. I remember one night in 1990 when a bunch of civilians landed on the island to attend a party chaired by Ms. Blanca Ibañez. That evening a logistic transport had landed... you guess.. with the ice cubes.
So it is not new.
----
Panama Jack
Regarding comparison between civilian and military safety records, although I don't have statistics handy, I would put money on the fact that the military records are far worse.
Off the top of my head, there has been only one major fatal accident in the Venezuelan civilian aviation in the last few years. However, I can remember a few military ones:
1990: CASA 212 Aviocar (Navy)- Mérida - 24 dead (most of them civilian)
1994: Antonov (Guardia Nacional) 14 dead, half of them civilian
1999: Demonstration aircraft, can't remember type, 8 dead.
2002: Super Puma (Air Force)- 12 dead, a few civilian ministers dead.
Again: it's a lethal combination: low experience + limited training + "we have to do it" environment. However, I would say that is not pilots' fault... it's a system fault.
The Navy uses the Island very rarely for gunship training. They can't spare many shots for training, so they do it only once a year.
Civilians have visited La Orchila since early 60s. In the 90s, the Navy had a scheduled flight on which you could get on to spend the weekend on the island if you were a relative/friend of Navy personnel. The Navy would fly you on their Dash 7, so that you could have a nice weekend on Playa Rosada.
On top of that, VIP (civilians) would fly to the Island on helicopters (I flew them a few times), whilst Transport ships with a crew of 100+ men would made a 10 hour voyage from La Guaira to the Island to bring refreshments and ice cubes. Yes... ice cubes!
Civilian top personnel would throw long parties to indulge their friends. I remember one night in 1990 when a bunch of civilians landed on the island to attend a party chaired by Ms. Blanca Ibañez. That evening a logistic transport had landed... you guess.. with the ice cubes.
So it is not new.
----
Panama Jack
Regarding comparison between civilian and military safety records, although I don't have statistics handy, I would put money on the fact that the military records are far worse.
Off the top of my head, there has been only one major fatal accident in the Venezuelan civilian aviation in the last few years. However, I can remember a few military ones:
1990: CASA 212 Aviocar (Navy)- Mérida - 24 dead (most of them civilian)
1994: Antonov (Guardia Nacional) 14 dead, half of them civilian
1999: Demonstration aircraft, can't remember type, 8 dead.
2002: Super Puma (Air Force)- 12 dead, a few civilian ministers dead.
Again: it's a lethal combination: low experience + limited training + "we have to do it" environment. However, I would say that is not pilots' fault... it's a system fault.
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Verticalflight,
Knowing about corruption in Venezuela, I say ur story is true. Sounds very real
It's a shame that politicians waste taxpayers money in their own personal parties and using State owned a/c and ships for their own priviledge. I really hope this changes someday in Venezuela.
PD: Do you also post in airliners.net forums under the name of LX23?
Knowing about corruption in Venezuela, I say ur story is true. Sounds very real
It's a shame that politicians waste taxpayers money in their own personal parties and using State owned a/c and ships for their own priviledge. I really hope this changes someday in Venezuela.PD: Do you also post in airliners.net forums under the name of LX23?
