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-   -   Buttonville officially dealt death blow . . . (http://www.pprune.org/canada/431880-buttonville-officially-dealt-death-blow.html)

bizjets101 27th Oct 2010 02:54

Buttonville officially dealt death blow . . .
 
A partnership was announced today, to kill the 10th busiest airport in Canada.

Armadale Co. Limited and The Cadillac Fairview Corporation Limited Announce Joint Venture for the Development of 170 Acre Buttonville Airport Site

Area of Buttonville is 170 acres, supposedly??, Markham airport just NE, has 600 acres available for development and rumored to be owned by the Thomson family.

Thomson family is the 20th richest $$$ family in the world.

Sifton family own and control Buttonville through Armadale Company, very sad they could not have found a way to leave the airport alone as a living legacy to their benefactor and late father - whose wish was to keep Buttonville running.

No exact closure date had been given, but it has been stated in 4 to 5 years the last aircraft will leave Buttonville.

wrenchbender 27th Oct 2010 13:04

"Derek Sifton, President of TAL has announced today that a business agreement has now been put in place to redevelop the airport lands. Armadale Co. Limited (the parent company to TAL) and The Cadillac Fairview Corporation Limited have formed a joint venture for the development of the airport lands.

In speaking to his staff and tenants about the announcement Sifton stated I can tell you now with certainty that in the coming years, this airport site will be closed for redevelopment under this agreement. While this will not happen tomorrow, it is going forward and will occur sometime over what we expect will be a five year period.

clunckdriver 27th Oct 2010 13:07

An example of short sighted planing{Or lack of same} as can be found anywhere! Toronto is the worst served city in North America when it comes to airports, CYTZ is almost totally blocked by Porter, dont even think of CYYZ most of the time, a total joke when it comes to corporate non based aircraft. We fly almost a weekly sked into CYKZ, and each week leave behind about $2,000,000 , a major food company has made it quite clear that if the airport goes, so does their head office, along with at least twelve hundred jobs to the USA. Lets hope the newly elected officials in Toronto can turn this around, the Sifton children are only after the money, it should be expropriated and the airport kept in place,. Its ironic to see London{UK} spend billions to build a downtown airport, and Toronto ready to piss away such a vital part of their infrastructure. As for our company, we will be moving our operations further East {Quebec}if the airport does in fact close, hope Im totally retired by then! Lets hope that Brampton and Burlington have the forsight to make themselves into real airports for Medivac and corporate customers. Does any one really think that Toronto needs another mall or fast food outlet? What a joke Toronto is becoming with its total lack of forsight and real urban planing, seems the city is doomed to go down the same short sighted path that has been troden by many others before. I think the lesson here is dont leave anything to your kids unless its locked up in a water tight trust!

Pilot DAR 27th Oct 2010 21:36

It is sad to think of Buttonville closing, but I don't have the half zillion dollars to put my money where my mouth is, to keep it open. I have witnessed 3 very vibrant aerodromes close to Toronto close over the years, and was indeed the very last aircraft to use Maple (as a runway was being taken up at the other end!). My only course of action was to buy much cheaper land further north, and build my own home/aerodrome. Though I do not agree with Buttonville closing, I also am not willing to pay the actual value of the land there, in today's inflated market, to keep it open. If the airport were to support itself entirely on movements, what would the landing fees be?

When I first flew out of Buttonville, there were completely open fields for miles on three sides. Now none. It is actually a little un-nerving in a single in there now, as there are few suitable places to go if something goes bang. Though I regularly use Buttonville, I don't do it casually anymore.

It is not as much the failure of our government to buy up these airports to keep them open, as it is the failure to plan for their continued usefullness and harmonized existance with the community. It's one thing to own the airport itself, but if there is no control of the land on the approaches, and otherwise noise sensative areas, closing is just a matter of time, when a city encroaches. Consider what YYZ used to be like, before the whiners bought the cheap land, moved in, and started complaining. Thumbs down to them!

With a jet ban at the island airport, this will just place more pressure again on YYZ, to accept light to medium business traffic under reasonable circumstances. A city has to have an airport which will support it's business industry.

What a shame that Downsview was not locked up for open public use, when it should have been, 30 years ago. It was already federally owned, with suitably tolerant neighbours, and at the top of a good transit system too! What a waste that it should sit there now catering to only one limited use, and having the ends of its runways sold off.

Two weeks ago I was musing at the photo of a big aviation event at Buttonville, probably in the late 50's, which is on display in the lobby. One day, that photo too will be one which just reminds us of what aviation around Toronto used to be like. I wish I'd taken similar photos of Maple and King City, when I used to fly from those wonderful airports....

But, as I began... I cannot afford to pay my way to use land, which others will pay so much more for... I loose... Our industry looses....

Married a Canadian 28th Oct 2010 02:13

Quote:

What a shame that Downsview was not locked up for open public use, when it should have been, 30 years ago. It was already federally owned, with suitably tolerant neighbours, and at the top of a good transit system too! What a waste that it should sit there now catering to only one limited use, and having the ends of its runways sold off.
Partly agree on that but an operation into downsview has WAY too big an impact on YYZ to be feasible. If YYZ is landing on the 24s and the ZD arrival can only come in IFR (RNAV 15) you have to build in gaps to the final approach at Pearson. At peak rate this is difficult at best. When departing on the 05/06s, if a ZD departure comes off IFR then you have to stop departures at Pearson again till separation is assured. Not practical or efficient...for either airport as we end up holding both.
It may seem like a waste but on an IFR day it would not work full stop especially if it had the movements that KZ does.


As for KZ....even as a newbie to this country I have to agree that it would be madness to close...and reinforce my opinion that Toronto is a wee bit backwards when it comes to any sort of transport infrastructure. I still couldn't get my head around David Miller saying that a city didn't need a downtown airport and doing his best to kill YTZ.

clunckdriver 28th Oct 2010 11:06

Pilot DAR, You put your finger right on it, the lack of understanding of the importance of GA to a city like Toronto, thus allowing development right up to the airport fence is the root cause behind this situation, combined with a totally flawed airport privitization policy, which in turn is leading to airports closing or under presure acros Canada.I dont know whats taken place in Canada of late, but twice in the last year I have overnighted in towns with fine airports in which the hotel staff where we stayed didnt even know their town has a fine IFR facility! One cab driver wanted to drive to Toronto from Simcoe as "Thats the only airport around here" given this sort of thing its no wonder Joe Public doesnt understand whats going on with the destruction of our most basic infrastructure. In Ottawa the councilor, within whose riding CYOW is located didnt know that the airport was in fact privitized and directed us to TC if we wanted to have a say in airport development, with the above atitudes is it any wonder that developers can simply move in without a public outcry .As for Downsview, if it were run like KTEB there would be no need for holding or any conflicts, cross the shore at 500 feet or from the North likewise and land! This would of course require Nav Canada to think a little more out of the box than they normally are known for, the Nimbies would also whine no doubt!, even in Europe we often cross over small airports on approach to the big ones, less than 1000ft AGL In the mean time Toronto will simply blunder on,unless the newly elected group are indeed a bit brighter than Miller and his mob.

Pilot DAR 28th Oct 2010 22:53

Quote:

unless the newly elected group are indeed a bit brighter than Miller and his mob.
In my opinion, and recalling Mr. Miller's numerous attepts to close or atl east disable the Island airport, being less bright on Toronto aviation needs and realities than Miller's mob, is hardly possible!

Married a Canadian 28th Oct 2010 23:17

Quote:

we often cross over small airports on approach to the big ones, less than 1000ft AGL
Lets be fair here Clunck...you can't seriously expect, if Downsview are on 33 on an IFR day to coast in at the shore line at 500 ft...which would take you right through the city zone and quite close to the CN tower. It ain't going to happen whether Nav Canada think outside the box or not.
That box is within 8 miles of YYZ just under the approach on the 24s as the inbounds descend through 3000ft. Separation is not assured.

If it is VFR then by all means fill your boots...and De havilland does. But Downsview is a non starter..and it has nothing to do with NAV Canada...it is more to do with the GTAA and the terrain clearance to the south with that large tower in the way.

I agree that closing Buttonville is folly but lamenting the lack of use of an airport that would cause too many conflictions with other traffic is not really sensible. It may seem so from a pilot perspective..but there are a lot of controllers at the ACC who have been here longer than I have that say Downsview is a non starter. You would not get in IFR without disrupting Pearson or eroding the separation standards used in Canada or terrain clearance or minimum vectoring altitude. This has nothing to do with thinking outside the box.

lisa_kikuchi 13th Oct 2011 17:59

Buttonville Redevelopment Blog
 
Hey guys!

My project group and I created a public blog that has research and work on the Buttonville Airport Redevelopment. This blog contains collected research and related information about the closing and redevelopment of the airport. Later on in the future, it will also contain our proposal of the redevelopment plan. We will keep working on posting on this blog for the next 3 months.

It will be greatly appreciated if you can look at this blog and comment on it.

Buttonville Redevelopment Blog

Thank you!!

Markwbrooks 27th Jan 2012 16:14

A new Airpark is on its way
 
Checkout www.pickeringairpark.com

Only 20 minutes from Buttonville and Opening 2014, so will buttonville last that long?

Jet Jockey A4 30th Jan 2012 11:43

Best wishes to the folks in the project but I think they should start with a minimum runway length of 5000 feet (6000 feet would be better) if they are interested in attracting the corporate jets.


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