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Canada The great white north. A BIG country with few people and LOTS of aviation.

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Old 16th Apr 2017, 09:58   #1 (permalink)
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Opportunities for Immigrants.

Just a curious question. How good or bad is the market for immigrant pilots in Canada who have a couple of thousand hours on either the 737s/320s or other jet aircraft.
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 10:10   #2 (permalink)
 
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Not great unfortunately, you'll have zero chance of going to AC.

You'll end up at a regional , very unlikely to get direct entry command . Pay will be half or even a quarter of what you can earn in the sandbox or Asia .

You will be constantly told how useless your jet flying skills are..

But it is an amazing country otherwise, very welcoming . Some pretty amazing cities with so much to do
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Old 16th Apr 2017, 20:02   #3 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
You will be constantly told how useless your jet flying skills are..
Hmmm, this statement evokes many questions....

Has this been pfv's first hand experience? If so, we'll leave it at that...

Would you be told your skills are poor, if they're really rather good?

Would you be being told your skills are poor, before you got the job? Or after?

Quote:
But it is an amazing country otherwise, very welcoming . Some pretty amazing cities with so much to do
And yes, this is my feeling too, though I'm biased!
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 10:09   #4 (permalink)
 
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You will be told that you are quite useless and your jet time won't count for much because someone flying a Navajo in moosonee has a bag of tricks far bigger than yours.

By all means these days there is a lot of movement , but you'll be an FO at porter or GGN or jazz.

You won't be flying the big iron unless you are lucky
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 11:16   #5 (permalink)
 
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You will be told that you are quite useless
By who? The chief pilot who hired you? Unlikely, or he should not have selected you! The very few pilots I have known who had their skills criticized deserved it. So make sure your skills are up, and do your job well!

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You won't be flying the big iron unless you are lucky


I'm sure that not every current jet pilot was "lucky", but rather just applied, worked their way up seniority, and while maintaining the required skills was offered the position.

Probably, rather than being "lucky" they were simply pleasant, and did not always present themselves with negativity.....
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 11:43   #6 (permalink)
 
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Well a browse through avcanada will show the resentment that people have over those who got to fly a big shiny jet at 200 hours total time
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 11:45   #7 (permalink)
 
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And yes I agree with you , after you are hired it really doesn't matter, people keep their opinions to themselves in a professional environment . It's getting the job and good advice that is difficult for an immigrant coming from a320 or 737 or wide bodies experience .
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 17:28   #8 (permalink)


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personally, know at least 2 people with working visas who were instructors with ~1500hrs with not a single hr in jets and got in.
Another case like similair to yours had a friend from outside of canada 2-3 yrs ago with 737 hrs who got hired in AC on a crj.

won't hurt if you apply and see for yourself what you get I have spoken to few pilots in AC and they told me having jet hrs will certainly give you an interview but doesn't mean will guarantee you a job.

Wish you all the best.
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Old 17th Apr 2017, 17:39   #9 (permalink)
 
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My spidey senses tell me there is is much, much more to this story.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 06:14   #10 (permalink)
 
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I'd be very interested in moving to Canada... what kind of options would I have? Im a 737 Captain, roughly 4000 total 1000 pic.
Thanks
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 12:05   #11 (permalink)


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I tend to agree with Psvspnf. You will have no problem in finding a job at the regionals, it's hiring like crazy everywhere at the moment. When I was at Jazz few years ago you had to wait at least 7 years for a left seat. Now depending on your base it might take few months... However the starting basic salary was about 42000$/y versus about 36000$ now.

But when I ask my friends how they can manage to live in YYZ with this salary, they just say they will probably be joining Air Canada in a few month so it is ok to accept these conditions. But then you join Air Canada and what...starting salary is about 55k/y with an increment of 5k per year for the next 5 years. But again my friends at AC say, yes but with the overtime and the per diems I can sometime reach 100K; this sucks. We work like slaves for peanuts here (I say we because I am flying the A330 here for the same shitty conditions). If we look at the other side of the border, year 1 at any Major in the US beats year 5 at Air Canada (supposedly the best airline pilot job in Canada...lol)
Then you will hear, yeah salaries are lower but lifestyle here is cheaper than everywhere else. This is not true anymore. Costs in Canada have massively increased for the last 10 years especially the house/condo market. It is totally overpriced everywhere, there is a massive bubble that is about to explode because everyone here is full of dept, credit cards are loaded at the max and the banks still give approvals for more loans. Infrastructures are deteriorating and the medical care is a real nightmare; and you pay about the same taxes as in Europe.
If you want to go on vacation and visit the world then you have to look at places like Cuba, Somalia, Ethiopia; because 1$CAD = 0.70euro or US$

I would think twice before leaving your job in Europe to come to Canada, this is far from dreamland anymore. The ratio of European immigrants leaving the country is pretty high once their 2 years honeymoon is done. Like step turn said, he's biased because he was born here; only an immigrant may understand.

Mr Boombastick: your best options are FO at Sunwing/Air Transat (the union prohibit DEC) and Westjet as FO too

I hope it helps...I have to go, I'm starting to see the grass in my garden (still brown tho) so it's time to put away my winter kit (april 19th..yeahhhhh)

Last edited by 333driver; 19th Apr 2017 at 14:16.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 14:45   #12 (permalink)
 
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Ilyushin76,

Why don't I put a different spin on this. The real answer is: it depends.

Hiring in Canada right now is going by the month. Some months are good, others are not.

With your couple thousand hours on jets, you'll have no problem filling an FO seat at Jazz, Encore, Sunwing, Air Transat, etc. You could apply at both AC and WJ Mainline, but they both seem to have a decent pool already filled and are trying to move to flow-based recruitment as it keeps their overall costs down (e.g. a 20-year employee on the 737 at WJ will "cost less" than a 20-year employee who spent 5 of those years at Encore).

If any of that couple thousand hours of yours is PIC (not P1 U/S) then you would stand a half decent chance of getting DEC at Encore. They're about the only airline that is doing DEC as they're still growing fleet numbers and flow to WJ mainline is robbing the experience.

As for attitude - I had the same bad experience from a couple bad apples when I worked in NZ. One or two locals who would lament how foreigners were coming to take the jobs. You're no doubt aware you find that all over the world, and Canada is no different. However, once you get into the cockpit, that all seems to disappear because even the grumblers don't want a 4-day pairing of just SOP. Don't take one persons experience to be indicative of an overall trend.

Now, before you go down this track, you'll need to make sure you have the right to work in Canada and all that good stuff. Most companies will not supply you with a reference because, frankly, the airlines have not reached that "we can't find pilots" point. Some of the smaller companies are getting close, but the universities and colleges still seem to be able to just keep up with the average demand.

On the other side of the coin, the charter and corporate side of aviation is starting to feel the crunch a little bit, so if you want a job right away, those are the companies to look at - both FO and DEC can be had there. You'll end up flying a Navajo, King Air, 1900D or something like that, but it'll get your feet wet here in Canada and, quite frankly, they're the ones who have the pulse of the industry as they're the ones always looking forward instead of us airline guys trying to look back.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 04:21   #13 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by 787dreamer9 View Post
personally, know at least 2 people with working visas who were instructors with ~1500hrs with not a single hr in jets and got in.
Another case like similair to yours had a friend from outside of canada 2-3 yrs ago with 737 hrs who got hired in AC on a crj.

won't hurt if you apply and see for yourself what you get I have spoken to few pilots in AC and they told me having jet hrs will certainly give you an interview but doesn't mean will guarantee you a job.

Wish you all the best.
Flight instructors with 1500 hours piston went to AC mainline ? I really doubt that is possible . I know of a guy that got in at 2000 with about 500 hours turbine, but he had a lot of contacts from daddy, this is an old boys club and everybody knows it.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 15:43   #14 (permalink)
 
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pfvspnf,

Re-read that post with a bit of critical thinking. Does AC mainline fly the CRJ? No. So is it possible 787dreamer9 was talking about Jazz while mistakenly grouping them under the "AC" banner; much as someone would do with WJ and Encore?

With that line of thinking, then yes, a 1,500 hr flight instructor with no previous jet or turboprop experience would stand a chance of getting in. Depending on how the bid went, that pilot stands a 1:3 chance of getting onto a CRJ (probably a little less, but the theory is sound).

Also, while there used to be an "old boys club" at Big Red, and to some extent there may still be, AC simply cannot use that mentality to fill all the seats that need filling in the next couple of years. Aviation has always been a "contacts" driven industry, so why would the airlines be any different?

It is interesting that in a previous post you lament how getting good advice is hard, yet you immediately lambaste those who try and give it. There is a saying that if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. In other words, if you don't like it, there's the door.

YOUR career is what YOU make of it. Networking is easy, with the right attitude.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 23:56   #15 (permalink)
 
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+1 for +TSRA's post
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 11:54   #16 (permalink)
 
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Well I did take the door and found opportunities elsewhere

You are the one that's being condescending , and you've openly admitted that daddies help out special folk

There was little need for networking for most of the jobs I got , I've been selected and upgraded on merit and qualifications .
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 16:05   #17 (permalink)


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+TSRA, thank you for correcting me. yes i confirmed, one of them knew someone in AC who knew someone in airjazz started with beech 1900 and several months later got upgraded anyways the matter is that it is not impossible to find a job with AC yes hard but for him from my other friend I mentioned who had 320 hrs still got in so it is possible for him to get one too depend on them and again as you mentioned, knowing someone in the airline has unfortunately been the number one option in the aviation industry when it comes to hiring doesn't matter which airline or country you are in!

Pfvspnf i am with you having a job with no contacts to the airline whatsoever and only your hard work will always feel the best choice however wouldn't you have chosen to be upgraded sooner if you were offered by someone you knew in the airline??!!
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Old 24th Apr 2017, 05:21   #18 (permalink)
 
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Congratulations on deciding to look at opportunities in Canada.
Immigrant Pilots can be treated either very well or very badly and anywhere in between.

The "market" as you put it, is very good, as there has never been this number of jobs offered for many decades.

If you have several thousand hours on jet aircraft, you could well end up with a great job very quickly. Be prepared for those who are called "red necks" who believe that only Canadians should be pilots in Canada.

You are very likely to get a job not flying jets but large turbine aircraft such as the Beech 1900 or King Air. These jobs can pay very well and will probably be your path to establishing your self in Canada.

Now, some areas of Canada are very friendly towards immigrants and do a lot to encourage immigration. Manitoba is one of them and southern Manitoba in particular Morden you will see lots of You Tube videos about immigrating to Morden and the second or third languages spoken are German and Russian. Often many speaking both.

Your first task will be to get a Canadian Medical however you may be able to use your last foreign medical to obtain a medical certificate for your Canadian licence. That might save you $100 or so.

Most companies worth talking to, will accept your foreign licences and allow you to do a single ride , PPC and IPC to gain your your instrument rating.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilyushin76 View Post
Just a curious question. How good or bad is the market for immigrant pilots in Canada who have a couple of thousand hours on either the 737s/320s or other jet aircraft.
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Old 25th Apr 2017, 18:05   #19 (permalink)
 
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Hi, I hope this isn't hijacking the thread. I was just wondering if anyone had any similar info but for expat baby pilots like myself?

One day I'd love to get out to Canada for the lifestyle and the flying - I'm pretty open whether its airlines or the charter gig (ideally more hands on flying). Would any Canadian companies employ newly qualified EASA ATPL(f)s or will that all go to local pilots?

Similarly, I'm at a point where I could choose to do a Canadian CPL, as from my research, converting from EASA looks like a bit of a drama currently undergoing rule changes. Any info on this would be much appreciated, or how useful a Canadian licence is in comparison to EASA?

Kind Regards and thanks in advance.
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