Look Outside
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Lots of sim wizards out there, that stare at
the gauges and don't bother looking outside.
the gauges and don't bother looking outside.
I was invited to try a new helicopter simulator in Germany last year. It must have been pretty realistic, because once I had it running, and had done some basic hover work to get the feel of it, I headed out toward the runway to depart for a circuit. I found myself holding at the runway, and doing clearing turns looking for traffic.
Glass Cockpits do breed a false sense of infallibility
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Thanks for the correction. Never used a HUD except on a SIM.
I love glass cockpits but the more information you have to read
on the screens in front of you, I'd say that there is a greater
at least temptation to decrease looking outside the cockpit.
I love glass cockpits but the more information you have to read
on the screens in front of you, I'd say that there is a greater
at least temptation to decrease looking outside the cockpit.
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Quote:
I've been flying for over 40 years now, and
instructing for over 20 years, and nearly all
the people I give dual to have really substandard
lookouts.
Thats a bad string of students. I ve had some of the opposite experience- young or new keen pilots who are excellent at being taught and learning to look outside. But some very scary high time low supervised pilots who have developed some habits resulting in a many cockpit prayer from myself......
I've been flying for over 40 years now, and
instructing for over 20 years, and nearly all
the people I give dual to have really substandard
lookouts.
Thats a bad string of students. I ve had some of the opposite experience- young or new keen pilots who are excellent at being taught and learning to look outside. But some very scary high time low supervised pilots who have developed some habits resulting in a many cockpit prayer from myself......
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"I love glass cockpits but the more information you have to read
on the screens in front of you, I'd say that there is a greater
at least temptation to decrease looking outside the cockpit."
You're absolutely right, but depending on what you're doing with the airplane looking inside may not only be tempting but essential. It's all about task management as you begin to use airplanes for something other than boring holes in the sky.
The pilot in this particular incident may have been dividing his time between navigating through terrain trying not to misidentify his next turn point since one valley often looks like the next, or simply trying to plan his flight path so as not to hit that terrain. Many things could have justifiably diverted his attention just enough so he didn't notice the glider, that according to the report would have been difficult to spot even if he were specifically looking for it. Ditto with the glider pilot.
There are plenty of other hazards to aircraft beyond mid-air collisions that also require attention, and usually there is a job to accomplish as well. The trick is managing it all which requires training and usually experience to do well.
on the screens in front of you, I'd say that there is a greater
at least temptation to decrease looking outside the cockpit."
You're absolutely right, but depending on what you're doing with the airplane looking inside may not only be tempting but essential. It's all about task management as you begin to use airplanes for something other than boring holes in the sky.
The pilot in this particular incident may have been dividing his time between navigating through terrain trying not to misidentify his next turn point since one valley often looks like the next, or simply trying to plan his flight path so as not to hit that terrain. Many things could have justifiably diverted his attention just enough so he didn't notice the glider, that according to the report would have been difficult to spot even if he were specifically looking for it. Ditto with the glider pilot.
There are plenty of other hazards to aircraft beyond mid-air collisions that also require attention, and usually there is a job to accomplish as well. The trick is managing it all which requires training and usually experience to do well.
A friend of mine was instructing at YHM in the early 80s. They were in the control zone and flying a simulated missed approach off the ILS to 06 when they collided with a C150 that was on the left downwind for the old RWY 12. His student was killed and he was badly injured but managed to get what was left of the Lance on the ground. He was looking right at the direction of the C150's approach at the moment the collision occurred but the angles put it in the blind spot behind the window frame.
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we narrowly missed a C172
In my experience, 99% of pilots instinctively do the wrong thing, when suddenly seeing another airplane up close.
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There was no time
there is rarely time to stop and think.
People never rise to the occasion. They sink
to their lowest level of training, and either
their instincts are correct, or they are not.
Teaching people new instincts is very difficult
and time-consuming, which is why I now refuse
to do ab initio training on nosewheel.
Another example of wrong instincts: slow flight
and stalls. Before flying, I will review the dangers
of adverse yaw, and every pilot I fly with, on an
intellectual basis, understands the problems
associated with adverse yaw.
But every pilot I fly with - including some with
some pretty fat logbooks - when the wing drops,
tries to pick it up with aileron. Here's a straight
and level pilot for you:
Sigh.
Their instincts are wrong - there is no time to think.
I suppose we could say the same thing about Colgan
3407.
Anyways, in my experience, when pilots are suddenly
faced with another airplane in close proximity, they
respond about as well as the Captain of Colgan 3407.
Deer in the headlights, and after many tenths of a
second go by, the wrong inputs.
PS Feel free to discard my input on these subjects.
I have spent thousands of hours flying formation
aerobatics at low altitude, and know a little bit about
avoiding mid-air collisions, but probably not as much
as you.
http://i.imgur.com/hrT11Pa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9gZWJaM.jpg
Remember - biplanes have no "blind spots". Just
ask Jimmy Franklin, or Bobby Younkin.
Last edited by canuck51; 22nd Sep 2014 at 14:49.
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"... and sometimes a little bit of luck."
Oh yes...luck.
We should never depend on luck, nevertheless there isn't a single one of us who doesn't owe our continued existence to good luck regardless of how much of a skygod we think we are.
Oh yes...luck.
We should never depend on luck, nevertheless there isn't a single one of us who doesn't owe our continued existence to good luck regardless of how much of a skygod we think we are.
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"I have spent thousands of hours flying formation
aerobatics at low altitude, and know a little bit about
avoiding mid-air collisions,"
Irrelevant in this context. If you're any good at formation flight (and I take it you are) every pilot in your formation will have predetermined escape routes if you lose sight especially during opposing aerobatics. That means you know what the other guy is going to do. Not so out in free airspace.
"but probably not as much
as you."
Sounds like you're trying to pick a fight as if you were still in the school yard. How about if we all just acknowledge your supremacy on this topic and avoid the fight?
BTW, using rudder to do anything but control yaw in a large aircraft with an engine out or crosswind takeoff/landing is exactly the wrong instinct. It is never used to control a dropped wing even in a stall.
aerobatics at low altitude, and know a little bit about
avoiding mid-air collisions,"
Irrelevant in this context. If you're any good at formation flight (and I take it you are) every pilot in your formation will have predetermined escape routes if you lose sight especially during opposing aerobatics. That means you know what the other guy is going to do. Not so out in free airspace.
"but probably not as much
as you."
Sounds like you're trying to pick a fight as if you were still in the school yard. How about if we all just acknowledge your supremacy on this topic and avoid the fight?
BTW, using rudder to do anything but control yaw in a large aircraft with an engine out or crosswind takeoff/landing is exactly the wrong instinct. It is never used to control a dropped wing even in a stall.
Last edited by engfireleft; 22nd Sep 2014 at 17:53.
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I don't think so.
When you fly formation there (should be) a strict protocol for avoiding collision if you lose sight of someone - you go directly away from their last position. Meaning if the last time you saw them they were on your left you go right. Opposing aerobatics you should be calling visual once heading toward each other, and if you can't see the other person you should each have a safe escape direction to ensure you don't hit. The more airplanes in your formation, particularly if you're doing aerobatics, the more disciplined and potentially complex each safe escape plan must be. Rejoins don't count as collision avoidance.
What that means is that both you and the person you're formating with know exactly what you will do in each instance. If you don't have such a protocol may I respectfully suggest you develop one. Plenty of people conducting formation flight have died because they didn't know how to deconflict or never followed the protocol they did have.
Now, how does that translate into avoiding another airplane you didn't know was there seconds ago, are not talking to and have no knowledge of what he/she will do?
When you fly formation there (should be) a strict protocol for avoiding collision if you lose sight of someone - you go directly away from their last position. Meaning if the last time you saw them they were on your left you go right. Opposing aerobatics you should be calling visual once heading toward each other, and if you can't see the other person you should each have a safe escape direction to ensure you don't hit. The more airplanes in your formation, particularly if you're doing aerobatics, the more disciplined and potentially complex each safe escape plan must be. Rejoins don't count as collision avoidance.
What that means is that both you and the person you're formating with know exactly what you will do in each instance. If you don't have such a protocol may I respectfully suggest you develop one. Plenty of people conducting formation flight have died because they didn't know how to deconflict or never followed the protocol they did have.
Now, how does that translate into avoiding another airplane you didn't know was there seconds ago, are not talking to and have no knowledge of what he/she will do?
Last edited by engfireleft; 22nd Sep 2014 at 22:19.
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Sure,
I'll bite.
"Blind Spots" are another name for a failure of a pilot to look
in that "Blind Spot".
It's the blind spot that is where the aircraft that is going to kill you is coming from.
Aviation has lots of "justifications" for accidents that are nothing else
but sheer delinquency by a pilot.
Not that I claim to be JC reincarnated and his holy gift to aviation, the fact is we all make mistakes, errors in judgment, and the long term ability of a pilot in or during his career to look at his "blind spot" is generally, proportional to his basic training, that is, the earliest responsibility goes to the abinitio instructor.
I'll bite.
"Blind Spots" are another name for a failure of a pilot to look
in that "Blind Spot".
It's the blind spot that is where the aircraft that is going to kill you is coming from.
Aviation has lots of "justifications" for accidents that are nothing else
but sheer delinquency by a pilot.
Not that I claim to be JC reincarnated and his holy gift to aviation, the fact is we all make mistakes, errors in judgment, and the long term ability of a pilot in or during his career to look at his "blind spot" is generally, proportional to his basic training, that is, the earliest responsibility goes to the abinitio instructor.
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Canuck51’s Rules of Engagement
1. Start a new thread with an interesting topic. Moan about how nobody agrees with you (hard to see how anybody could agree or disagree with you when nobody’s had a chance to reply to your topic yet, but whatever) and then throw in an irrelevant reference or two. (See Post #1, above). This will generally evolve over time to additional hand-wringing about how nobody actually believes you’re much of a pilot. You apparently crave respect and adoration from the PPrune audience (having miserably failed to find it on that other forum), and it bothers you that the crowd here doesn't appear to be coming around...
2. When your views are challenged, draw an absurd conclusion from the facts presented by the opposing side. (See Posts #4 and #9, above). Do not, under any circumstances, argue on the basis of anything remotely approaching logic.
3. When presented with salient points from the thread topic that you have apparently overlooked or failed to consider, draw additional absurd conclusions to prove yet again that you do not understand the difference between a specific instance and a broadly-applicable rule.
Throw in a reference to your alleged vast reservoir of experience (always a crowd-pleaser!), then sit back and await the huzzahs.(Reference Post #13).
4. When said huzzahs fail to appear, double down. Throw in alleged quotes from some of your alleged students to show how ridiculous they were prior to benefiting from your tough but tender tutelage.
(See Post #18).
5. Post some selfies – always a good tactic to impress the PPrune crowd!
(See Post #28). Concurrently indulge in a bout of maudlin self-pity (“Feel free to discard my input on these subjects. I have spent thousands of hours flying formation aerobatics at low altitude, and know a little bit about avoiding mid-air collisions, but probably not as much as you.” 
(See Post #28).
6. When the inevitable frustration sets in because people here are still, y'know, failing to appreciate your vast magnificence, and in fact seem to be at least as qualified as you and potentially more so, resort to ad hominem attacks. (Reference Post #31). Always worked well in the schoolyard (it did, right?), so why not here?
1. Start a new thread with an interesting topic. Moan about how nobody agrees with you (hard to see how anybody could agree or disagree with you when nobody’s had a chance to reply to your topic yet, but whatever) and then throw in an irrelevant reference or two. (See Post #1, above). This will generally evolve over time to additional hand-wringing about how nobody actually believes you’re much of a pilot. You apparently crave respect and adoration from the PPrune audience (having miserably failed to find it on that other forum), and it bothers you that the crowd here doesn't appear to be coming around...
2. When your views are challenged, draw an absurd conclusion from the facts presented by the opposing side. (See Posts #4 and #9, above). Do not, under any circumstances, argue on the basis of anything remotely approaching logic.
3. When presented with salient points from the thread topic that you have apparently overlooked or failed to consider, draw additional absurd conclusions to prove yet again that you do not understand the difference between a specific instance and a broadly-applicable rule.
Throw in a reference to your alleged vast reservoir of experience (always a crowd-pleaser!), then sit back and await the huzzahs.(Reference Post #13).4. When said huzzahs fail to appear, double down. Throw in alleged quotes from some of your alleged students to show how ridiculous they were prior to benefiting from your tough but tender tutelage.
(See Post #18).5. Post some selfies – always a good tactic to impress the PPrune crowd!
(See Post #28). Concurrently indulge in a bout of maudlin self-pity (“Feel free to discard my input on these subjects. I have spent thousands of hours flying formation aerobatics at low altitude, and know a little bit about avoiding mid-air collisions, but probably not as much as you.” (See Post #28).6. When the inevitable frustration sets in because people here are still, y'know, failing to appreciate your vast magnificence, and in fact seem to be at least as qualified as you and potentially more so, resort to ad hominem attacks. (Reference Post #31). Always worked well in the schoolyard (it did, right?), so why not here?
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If you don't have such a protocol may I respectfully suggest you develop one
Let me know the next airshow you're flying
low-altitude formation aerobatics at, and I'll
come watch.
http://i.imgur.com/Qfphf.jpg
how does that translate into avoiding another airplane
why would I - a mere formation aerobatic airshow
pilot - need to teach you anything about safely
operating in close proximity to another airplane?
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The idea here is to avoid hitting other airplanes when encountering them unexpectedly while just flying around which has nothing to do with flying formation during an airshow - as awesomely impressive as you are doing that.
