Gear Up Landings

[clunckdriver]

There are Lies, dammed lies, and statistics, to compare me in my single engine eighty year old vintage aircraft, and my previous occupation of {wait for it!} of flying a 767/300/ER is absurd to say the least, but the point that is trying to be made is simply that the slavish use of thirty page checklists in a S/E piston aircraft or light twin is in fact a large part of the problem, it simply becomes background noise to eventually be ignored, I read one recently the first line of which was, OPEN DOOR AND SIT IN SEAT! I kid you not, I find it interesting that those returning to light aircraft in retirement after a few decades on the heavy metal are the ones most opposed to this endless babble in the cockpit.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It has even progressed to giving a verbal pre take off briefing in a Cessna 150 going into great detail of every action to be taken for a normal take off and what they will do in the event of an emergency......makes for better airline prospects so they claim.

[Wolfdog]

Pre take off briefing in a Cessna 150????? Release the HOUND?
WD

[flyhardmo]

It's not about the gear. It's about seasoned veterans posting questionable advice that could negatively affect the lives of impressionable up and comers who come to forums like this one to learn more about the business.

Not exactly. I think what's lost in this debate is that the 'seasoned veterans' you mention are not advocating not using a checklist per se, but they are using a memory checklist rather than a written checklist. Having a finals check or confirming the type of surface you are landing on,is a checklist to confirm everything is configured properly. It just hasn't been cross checked on a paper checklist.

Discipline in the key to adhering to checklists whether it's paper or a memory check. Glossing over any items and missing items for the sake of just reading reading/saying a checklist and not checking off that the items are done puts you in the situation those Navajo chaps found themselves in.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Exactly flyhardmo, unfortunately many pilots who read these forums do not see the whole picture and revert to the rote training they have received that programs them in a myopic world where thinking is not encouraged....

......and they read their check lists and land with the gear up.

[Wolfdog]

Further to that, we are all advocating the use of written check lists in any abnormal situation. It's just J.O.'s reading comprehension skills are lacking in this area?
WD

[clunckdriver]

Nothing to do with gear up arrivals, but a good illustration of the absurdity of the expanding checklist culture in GA these days. At a local airport a chap turned up with his "new and improved checklist" for a single engine, fixed gear fixed pitch prop four seat aircraft, a nice little cross country toy with a decent cruising speed and beautifully equipped office. To the amazement of those in the building,{and amusement I might add} it was more like a book then an aircraft checklist , so buddy goes out to the aircraft, its Winter and bloody cool out side, after spending an unusual amount of time sitting in the aircraft he finally got it started and proceeded to taxi, the problem being that he failed to remove the engine Winter cover, fortunately this minor omission was brought to his attention by a "Rampy" but not before the engine cover was reduced to "shop rags" and the prop had a highly polished hub! On his return to the building someone asked him if he was going to add "remove engine and wing covers "to the checklist, the sarcasm was I'm afraid wasted on him! Not gear related, but an illustration of the written checklist for normal operations taking precedence over common sense.

[Wolfdog]

Clunk, my biggest beef with the day to day use of written checklists is the blind dependence on them, obviously taught by FTUs and the puppy mills alike. If it ain't written down, these slaves to the system don't do it!
WD

[Jetjock330]

He still lands better than me in my B777-300ER. Another wheels up today!