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Bang it on???

Canada The great white north. A BIG country with few people and LOTS of aviation.

Bang it on???

Old 11th May 2014, 20:25
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Bang it on???

Why do so many pilots keep insisting that you have to " Bang it on " when landing rather than " Fishing for a greaser. "

What control inputs are recommended to " Bang it on " if you are flying a nose wheel airplane?

How do you " Fish " for a greaser. ?
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Old 11th May 2014, 20:48
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Bang it on???

Do you want a positive touchdown to get the wheels spinning up quickly as well as making sure the anti-skid is singing and dancing, coupled with any weight-on-wheels equipment fitted, or do you want to spend an age scrubbing rubber off and not have as much directional control?
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Old 11th May 2014, 21:43
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Do you want a positive touchdown to get the wheels spinning up quickly as well as making sure the anti-skid is singing and dancing,

How often do you have to rely on anti- skid?
or do you want to spend an age scrubbing rubber off and not have as much directional control?
Why would you spend an age scrubbing off rubber after touch down? I try not to land skidding or drifting sideways, or landing to fast or to far down the runway.
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Old 11th May 2014, 23:05
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Welcome to the 21st century where stopping distance and preventing over-runs is more important than making the SLF think you're an ace 'cause you can grease it on.
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Old 11th May 2014, 23:38
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Originally Posted by Chuck Ellsworth
How do you " Fish " for a greaser. ?
Are you seriously saying you don't know what "fish for a greaser" means and how its done........ Really ?
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Old 11th May 2014, 23:43
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Thanks for pointing out what century it is J.O. but if you read my first post you will see I was asking how you bang it on. Do you stall way above the runway or just drive it on at a high rate of descent?

What control inputs are recommended to " Bang it on " if you are flying a nose wheel airplane?

How do you " Fish " for a greaser. ?
In other words I was curious to know how the bang it on procedure is taught.
Are you seriously saying you don't know what "fish for a greaser" means and how its done........ Really ?
I think I understand the importance of not running off the end of the runway.

I think they " fish " for a greaser by moving the elevators like it is a water pump. It has been a long time since I flew with you B.P.F. and I can't remember how you did it.
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Old 11th May 2014, 23:51
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When I get bored this sure is a neat way to pass time.
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Old 12th May 2014, 00:25
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Haha...gotta love lazy Sunday afternoons eh. I'll take a break and join in.

So, may I point out that in a Dash-8 you only need the wheels spinning up to 17 knots to have the anti-skid kick in...35 knots if the system sees you needing the brakes right away because the PSEU detects a fail to spin on one of the four tires...not exactly quick. And, after a good couple thousand hours on Dash-8's, I've found the adage that its like "landing a shopping cart thrown from the back of a pick-up doing 100 down the 401" is more than often accurate...so you shouldn't be worried about those old WOW sensors sending the "we're here" signal to the PSEU.

I digress, I'm of the belief that if you have the runway to spare, take a couple feet and try and give your passengers a comfortable return to mother earth. If, however, the runway is of shorter value then sure plop her down so you don't each up too much of that precious room. I don't, however, subscribe to the 21st century belief that we should aim for every landing to have half the overhead bins open and all the pregnant women give birth.

Perhaps if we aimed to always give our passengers a smooth landing we would be able to con people into paying more for a ticket, thus getting better T&C's.
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Old 12th May 2014, 00:55
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There are many airports in my system that are unforgiving in winter or with a contaminated runway. I am based at DCA and fly to LGA and BOS quite often. We also see Providence and other airports with shorter runways.

DCA is not the place in winter to go looking for a "greaser". It's time to get on the pavement and get on the binders to find out just what you have. If is a rather queasy feeling to give the airplane totally over to the anti-skid and simply sit there and listen to it jerk and rattle. It does a very good job by the way but it is doing the stopping not me.

You don't necessarily have to bang it on but runway behind you is useless.
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Old 12th May 2014, 00:56
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I've never flown the Dash 8 +TSRA but from riding in the back many times it sure has a firm arrival most of the time, it sort of feels like the main gear is bolted to the bottom of the seat with no shock absorbing built in.

For sure all airplanes do not handle the same.

However my curiosity was caused by reading so many conversations where the pilots describe a good landing as one that is banged on, somehow I missed the era when we strived for such an arrival, if we needed a firm touch down it was accomplished by wheel contact and the stall happening at the same time which meant a high alfa arrival at a controlled rate of descent at touch down.

Generally speaking the runways that commercial aviation use are long enough that you do not have to perform a maximum short landing very often.

My favorite runway is 20L at SBRJ it is just over 4300 feet and they operate 737's there with no problem.

Great view on final landing there.

You don't necessarily have to bang it on but runway behind you is useless.
Exactly, it is all about flying accurately.
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Old 12th May 2014, 00:59
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I have yet to meet a pilot who would prefer to land with a big thump, rather than a nice a squeek as the wheels smoothly roll on.

I have however met lots of pilots that let the aircraft float well past the intended touchdown point by continuing the flare in an attempt to get a greaser, rather than holding the landing attitude without more flare and letting the wheels make a firm but safe touchdown at the best spot.

But I guess a mundane statement of the obvious isn't the point of this thread.
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Old 12th May 2014, 01:01
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Originally Posted by Chuck Ellsworth
My favorite runway is 20L at SBRJ it is just over 4300 feet and they operate 737's there with no problem.
.
Yes I guess you found the jump seat does provide a good view.
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Old 12th May 2014, 01:07
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Yes I guess you found the jump seat does provide a good view.
I have never sat in a jump seat landing at SBRJ, I was always in the left seat as I was based there for a while in 1999/2000 B.P.F.

It was a great winter flying the top management of TAM Airlines around and living on Copacabana Beach.
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Old 12th May 2014, 11:30
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Never flown a Dash 8, but have dead- headed more times than I care to remember, I made a point of getting a seat from which I could see the gear, it really became quite entertaining, wet runway, the wheels just skimming along the water on the runway, beautiful, cant actually feel the touchdown, wheel starts to rotate, then, BAMB! the "lift dump" does its thing and the passenger's are certain the pilot has never flown before, it must be very frustrating for the pilots to have to put up with this every landing,
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Old 12th May 2014, 13:33
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I can attest that as a pax, it ain't known as the crash 8 for nothing...Jesus wept!
On the mighty cripple 7 we merely hear 20' on the RAD ALT, heave..then relax as it rolls on with a minimum of fuss and you catch a 3 wire....
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Old 12th May 2014, 18:58
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B.P.F my curiosity has gotten the better of me and I would like to know why you would take the time to post the following.
Originally Posted by Chuck Ellsworth View Post
My favorite runway is 20L at SBRJ it is just over 4300 feet and they operate 737's there with no problem.
Your response makes no sense at all.
Yes I guess you found the jump seat does provide a good view.
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Old 12th May 2014, 19:56
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Why don't the both of you get together, have a bunch of coca-cola's, have a brawl, dust yourselves off and go back to you seats and drink some more coke and laugh about how ridiculous this little ongoing battle is. The tension between you seems very child like. Just get it over with, move on
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Old 13th May 2014, 16:21
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Or go to the other place and sling sh*t around. They thrive on that over there.
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Old 13th May 2014, 16:45
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Or go to the other place and sling sh*t around. They thrive on that over there.
Actually I left that other place to get away from this type of activity.

I probably should just ignore such posts.
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Old 13th May 2014, 18:57
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Indeed you should, Chuck. I got hoofed off that other place for taking an equally hard line on stupidity! And, for comparing the hourly rental rates of airplanes to the price of Las Vegas "working" girls. They're pretty much the same hourly rate, one without the wildly pontificating 22 year old instructor though, making it the better deal.
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