PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Canada
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Canada The great white north. A BIG country with few people and LOTS of aviation.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 24th Dec 2012, 05:31   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,483
One infant dead in Nunavut plane crash

Infant dies in Nunavut plane crash - thestar.com
rotornut is offline   Reply
Old 24th Dec 2012, 08:04   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Between the sheets
Posts: 106
caution

Second approaches are always higher risk. The hair used to stand up on the back of my neck flying up north and trying a second approach, be it a metro or a 99. Unless you know that the approach was messed up and that's why you missed, doing another one adds alot of additional risk. We will be tempted to push it farther on the second one.
GMC1500 is offline   Reply
Old 28th Dec 2012, 21:07   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,483
Update:

Nunavut plane crash that killed baby the result of hard landing: report - The Globe and Mail
rotornut is offline   Reply
Old 30th Dec 2012, 13:44   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 874
Again, a young child becomes a projectile in a perfectley survivable crash and is killed,the solution to the child restraint problem was demonstrated years ago by the RAF, INSTALL THE BLOODY SEATS FACING THE REAR! very few flying machines crash going backwards, secure them with at least twenty G fastners and kids will no longer become projectiles in the event of a sudden stop. I have a relative who was in an RAF aircraft {a Valletta I think} which hit a hill at about 150 knots, only one out of a full load dead,{ this due to a large rock which came through the cabin.} Its with good reason that the ocupants of capsules re enter earth orbit facing backwards. Oh yes, I can hear it now from the airlines sales departments, "we will go broke, they will fly with others, yada yada"} These are the same folks who predicted a ban on smoking would put them out of buisines,in fact the reverse took place.
clunckdriver is online now   Reply
Old 30th Dec 2012, 17:01   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Too close to EASA
Posts: 361
Child protection

Airlines could always buy an infant child seat approved for takeoff and landing, thereby removing the risk to the child by being carried on the parent's lap. Virgin Atlantic and Cathay Pacific both offer the seat made by Gama Engineering in the UK and it meets FAA TSO C100 and has been sled-tested to 16g.
wigglyamp is offline   Reply
Old 30th Dec 2012, 17:26   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 874
Wigglylamp, yes, thats one way to do it, but rear facing seats improve survival chances for all the pax, , not just the kids,on top of this reversing the seats is a very simple task and on many aircraft requires no airframe modifications whatsoever , in fact its been done as a demo on a 727/200 in two hours.
clunckdriver is online now   Reply
Old 30th Dec 2012, 17:37   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Too close to EASA
Posts: 361
Reversing seats

Unfortunately there's more involved than just reversing the seats. The pax load in a forward-facing seat is taken by the seat belt at hip height. If the seat is reversed to rear-facing, then the pax load on impact is taken through the seat backrest and not through the belt, with a consequent higher c of g for the load so more rotational load trying go pull the seat out of the rails. Therefore, the seats and floor have to be beefed-up if rear facing and this will add additional weight.
wigglyamp is offline   Reply
Old 30th Dec 2012, 18:16   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 874
Wiggly, this depends on the seat design/builder, at least two models I know of are legal to be installed facing forward or aft, used in combies and for club seating, having said that its no big mod to place a nesting strip to beef up the recline mechanism and bottom pivot point, most of the seat rails already meet the G requirments, Im sure we will hear all sorts of reasons why it cant be done from the industry, the facts are however it has been done by the RAF and others in the past and has saved lives, the originator of the RAF seat system was a Polish fellow serving in the RAF but his name escapes me right now, I will try to dig up his writings on the subject.

Last edited by clunckdriver; 30th Dec 2012 at 19:17.
clunckdriver is online now   Reply
Old 2nd Jan 2013, 06:24   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 72
Nunavut

Absolutely,
2nd approaches, I remember flying right seat for a cowboy
in a twin turbine, when he went to do a second approach,
I was forced to pull the pin and demand to "circle" till
it gets better. Every flight was like playing Russian Roulette.
Yes, he always got in or arrived when no one else could or would
but at what risks.

Some never learn.

Last edited by Ramjet555; 26th Jan 2013 at 18:19.
Ramjet555 is offline   Reply
Old 4th Jan 2013, 21:52   #10 (permalink)
STC
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 131
Nah..

Clunkdriver, consumers don't like sitting backwards nor do they like to be forced to buy another seat for their infant child.

You stated that the death was preventable but so was the accident.
STC is offline   Reply
Old 6th Jan 2013, 11:54   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 874
STC, "consumers dont like sitting backwards", well a short Google search shows that there has been almost no negative consumer reaction when aircraft seats have been so installed. I am reminded of our VP marketing who predicted that a smoking ban would drive our customers away, what really took place when the oufit I flew for became one of the first to ban this stupid habit was our load factors took the largest jump up in the airlines history. {by the way, this ban was spearheded by a flight attendent and a pilot medical examiner, both of who were harrased by the tobaco industry and regretfully a few pilots who were rabid smokers, however most of these pilots have gone on to smokers heaven, but their deaths were in most cases not very pretty, two years on oxygen is not the nicest way to depart this world}When seat belts were introduced to our highways the same outcry about "freedom of rights" and other objections abounded, however I doubt there are many still claiming that seat belts are a bad thing, I could go on about how our presurization problems/ avionics glitches/cleaning costs/and overall maint cost declined, the only down side we found was that it was harder to find a presure leak as the tell -tale streaks of brown crap no longer took one to the source of the leak! Its time for TC and ICAO to justify the huge amounts of money they suck from the industry and enforce rearward facing seats for all pasenger comercial aircraft, but that would of course require them to make some meaningfull decisions, Im not holding my breath!
clunckdriver is online now   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:39.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network