Air Canada low cost start-up

[J.O.]

Enjoy....glad it's not me.

Not this time, but what is to say that the deterioration of WAWCON at AC won't eventually affect the lives of all flight crew in Canada? It would be foolish (or arrogant) to think that it won't, and that is reason enough to stop sniping and start supporting our colleagues when they face these challenges.

[wadefac]

Where's the hangar so i can get a little free shuteye before the flight...........just like the the good ole days.........NOT

[Auroradude]

Willy-Never-Learn, and the peanut gallery:

The equipment bid is out. LCC positions are on the bid - to be flown by ACPA pilots.

[Willie Everlearn]

Auroradude

Be assured, I've seen failed airlines over the past three decades and I'm getting better at guessing which ones won't make it. Sure, it's a guessing game. If ACPA wants to see this LCC succeed it needs to protect its members by not letting them get involved. My rationale for such a brash suggestion? ACPA needs to strengthen itself not weaken itself. Trying to be all things to all members only serves to dilute what little strength (influence) it has left.
Remember. Unionized pilots at LCCs are like hens teeth. Rare.
That might be worth some discussion down at the ACPA union hall.
This move is nothing more than a stick of dynamite tossed into a log jam.
What's next?
If it has jet engines flying in Canada it has to be flown by an ACPA member?

Willie Everlearn

[yuler]

What is the general thoughts of the pilots that are at air canada about this new venture? Would they recommend people to make the move?

[altiplano]

You are WAY out there altiplano...

What exactly did I say that is WAY out there?

I stated one FACT and then took attacks from you over it.

Did I hit a nerve with you?

Does it make you feel smarter and superior to continue to reference my level of intelligence?

You sound like a amateur political shill. All hollow talk and weak insults.

[altiplano]

What is the general thoughts of the pilots that are at air canada about this new venture? Would they recommend people to make the move?

Overall though I think people see growth as good and particularly good for low to mid seniority guys to get into a better seat sooner with likely a better sched.

I think the biggest concern people have is that the LCC positions are on the current bid but there isn't yet an understanding of exactly how it will come together for pairings, scheduling, work rules, etc.

No doubt there are some guys that are indifferent to it or against it. You are going to see that anywhere though.

[555orange]

see your point Willie, but your focusing too much on pilots making or breaking any particular operation. Pilots are in fact a very small impact to the bottom line. A union guy might earn a bit more, but in the end he will fly 80 hrs just like a non union guy. Contract doctor from overseas to do your bypass surgery, or the resident surgeons of a respected hospital? The flight deck is probably the one place one would want the most experience. It's the big picture here that makes or breaks any new venture. If it doesn't work, pilots from the mainline won't even be a small reason why.

[altiplano]

At the end of the day one cannot bury the fact that this move by AC is yet another in an endless series of moves toward busting the pilot association and dividing the workforce.

Agreed. So why do you have such a problem with AC pilots being up front? Why such an anti union sentiment? There are a lot of great guys at AC and most of them just want to do a good job and see the company succeed. 555 has it there, guys just want to fly their block and do their part. LCC guys will actually be making less than their WJ/AT counterparts , so why exactly will they propel it to fail?

What is the relevance of the "union horse ****" you think you have heard before? I see the union comittees trying to make this implementation as smooth as possible despite the heavy hand the Harper government used and the overreaching of the company in the new contract. I also see guys with pretty moderate and progressive approaches being elected by the union membership to executive positions.

You also talk about not selling out generations to come, seems like that is what governments and corporations are doing globally and not just in our business. Seems Labour are one of the few groups trying to work against it, and the inaccurate statements and negative sentiment that are out there are sadly misplaced.

Also, didn't intend to insult you, really meant to be directed at your argument. Adversaries not Enemies, you know?

[falcon2000easy]

So where does Sky Regional fit in with the Q400's and EMB175's, that they are hiring for?

[Flytdeck]

LCC bid

Notice that the latest bid has been cancelled. The training and flow-though process was not well defined in the new contract (or the first TA presented to the pilots) and is causing havoc.

A suggestion to the AC pilots trying to work through this problem. Consider bidding left seat to the bottom, then use the accumulated command time to explore options outside Air Canada. There are many opportunities overseas IF you have the courage to take the jump. Consider it as insurance Working conditions offshore are harsher, but since the new contract was put in place, are starting to look comparable. The downside... having to leave Canada (if you want to take full advantage of the tax laws).

Keep in mind that the AC pension is in a precarious position and there is a very good chance it could be scrapped at the earliest opportunity. The "protection" laws started to erode the first time the Government permitted recovery relief. Out Government has demonstrated that they are NOT labour's friend.

LCC can be an opportunity. I fear, though, it is the first step in splitting the airline to allow for continued operations during labour disruptions. Not now, but in the not too distant future. Just like maintenance, the pilots will be given a choice as to who they want to work for. It worked once....