PPRuNe Forums

Go Back   PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Canada
Forgotten your Username/Password?

Canada The great white north. A BIG country with few people and LOTS of aviation.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 24th Mar 2011, 13:43   #1 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 6
Flying over the North Pole

Hi,
I have a question that maybe you can know.
Is possible to fly over the north or south pole? I mean right over, and not around. I heard there are flying restrictions about flying just over the poles. Anyone knows anything about that? Have anyone made a VFR o flyed closed over the poles?
Thanks
fmeneuhe is offline   Reply
Old 24th Mar 2011, 14:00   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 969
Not only can you fly right over them, one Canadian operator even left a Twin Otter there, mind you they didnt intend to, just the ice was not quite a thick as they thought! {This was at the Geographic North, not the Magnetic one which has a habit of moving around}
clunckdriver is offline   Reply
Old 24th Mar 2011, 14:03   #3 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 6
Thanks. And can you fly over the magnetic pole as well?
fmeneuhe is offline   Reply
Old 24th Mar 2011, 14:18   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 969
Yup, as long it doesnt move to say over the White House or some other place where you might get shot at.
clunckdriver is offline   Reply
Old 24th Mar 2011, 14:19   #5 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 6
And the electronical devices dont go mad over the magnetic poles?
fmeneuhe is offline   Reply
Old 24th Mar 2011, 14:24   #6 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,504
Yep:

Geomagnetism - Using a compass
rotornut is offline   Reply
Old 24th Mar 2011, 14:27   #7 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 6
Ok thanks a lot.

Anyone in this forum has had the experience of flying closed over either the geographical pole or magnetic pole?
fmeneuhe is offline   Reply
Old 24th Mar 2011, 14:54   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 805
Private message for you.
Cpt. Underpants is offline   Reply
Old 25th Mar 2011, 00:09   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Found in Toronto
Age: 58
Posts: 495
Air Canada has polar flights every day from Toronto to Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong. They all pass very near the North Pole but the routes will vary from day to day.


Last edited by Lost in Saigon; 26th Mar 2011 at 19:48.
Lost in Saigon is offline   Reply
Old 25th Mar 2011, 09:28   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: BC
Posts: 325
North...

Yes, have flown there many years with and without sophisticated electronics. Before the days of GPS, navigation was based on use of compasses set to True headings and alignment was set with the use of a special sextant mounted in the aircraft's windows (Sun/Moon/Stars). The use of the sextant was part of the Commerical Pilot's license in Canada.

We used a procedure called 'Desitnation Grid' where we would 'offset' the gyro compasses to the destination airport meridian. This could lead to a huge discussion on its own.

No restriction on 'going over the top', in fact I've just completed a Polar Trial demonstration flight for an international operator. The test flight will have a flight track right over the North Pole.

As for the Magnetic Pole...it moves around and its exact location can be found on Nav Canada publications.
777AV8R is offline   Reply
Old 25th Mar 2011, 18:08   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 97
Last year a light aircraft made a flight over the North Pole and returned safely.

North Pole Journey 2010

Air News Explorersweb - the pioneers checkpoint
Rhys Perraton is offline   Reply
Old 26th Mar 2011, 00:40   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 11
The Boeing 777 is fully capable of flying directly over the North Pole. The Airbus product, on the other hand, is not. Apparently on the 'Bus, the instantaneous change in heading from 360 degrees to 180 degrees drives the APFDS (and consequently the autopilot) squirrelly. My carrier chooses not to directly cross the true North Pole with 777 out of conservative flight planning.

'Taco
Commander Taco is offline   Reply
Old 26th Mar 2011, 00:41   #13 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spain
Posts: 6
Thanks to all.
And anyone had any experience flying over the South Pole?
fmeneuhe is offline   Reply
Old 26th Mar 2011, 01:35   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 97
If it ain't Boeing I ain't going.
Lots of people nowadays fly over and at the South Pole, it's a busy place in the Southern summer.
Of course the water in the toilet goes around the other way.
Rhys Perraton is offline   Reply
Old 27th Mar 2011, 13:00   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: 500 miles from Chaikhosi, Yogistan
Posts: 2,842
Airbus have a standard polar nav mod that allows flight in polar regions with no problems. Not all aircraft have it fitted as standard. To my knowledge there is only one narrow body Airbus with it fitted.

It allows operations in True and Grid, which is an overlay of a grid on the polar region to stop the instantaneous flip flopping on headings.

As for the south magnetic pole, I have flown over it in a light turboprop and an Airbus. It's just off the coast of Dumont d'Urville at the moment. All navigation by then is done in True. GPS's work fine.

Look at a polar JNC. Lost of interesting lines making pretty shapes on it - especially the grivations
compressor stall is offline   Reply
Old 30th Mar 2011, 01:16   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 223
Been there or just about in 2005 and again in 2009 flying contract for DND (Dep National Defense) as a civilian, we were working out of Alert Station, the last inhabited place before the North Pole (military).

First time, I picked up a helicopter from Oregon, USA and flew it up to Alert and the second time I went from Ottawa, Canada. Slightly different than flying over it at 35,000 ft . Both times i spent a month living there and flew the aircraft back after completing the assignment

Two different routes, from the west coast to the center of Canada and up to Alert and the second time I went by the East coast of Canada all the way up.

loved it.

JD
fijdor is offline   Reply
Old 7th Apr 2011, 00:23   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Frozen North
Posts: 89
You may fly over either the true or magnetic poles at either end of the earth. It is far more pleasant to do so in the back of a large aircraft with a drink in your hand. Flying over the North or South pole in an aircraft smaller than a C17 means that eventually you will have to land someplace cold and windy for fuel which may or may not be there when you arrive, and will cost an astonishing amount to pre-position.

At the Northern Poles, mag or true, the ice is any where from a few centimeters to several meters thick. And it moves 10 km plus a day. As it moves it is subjected to tides, currents and winds which all combine to break the ice up. Consequently the ice has cracks and high pressure ridges, and may be difficult to assess for suitability. If it is unsuitable, and you have landed onit, you may find that your aircraft is going to settle to the bottom of the Arctic Ocean, 8000 feet below.

At the Southern Poles, fuel must be pre-positioned. If you are not flying for a government program, this can cost upwards of 10000 a drum. And when you arrive at the Pole, you will not receive a cordial welcome from the station staff. Plus, it is cold at a level difficult to comprehend, and with the elevation, 9300 feet, any exertion, like rolling your 10000 dollar fuel drum, feels like you've carried it over your head and run around the aircraft.

Having been, I really warm to the idea of the back seat of a large aircraft with a drink in my hand. Doesn't make for as cool a hero pilot shot though.
justcurious is offline   Reply
Old 29th Nov 2012, 16:58   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Authorities to deal with

Been searching for a thread particular to North Pole Flights for GA

Its all good to hear one is allowed to fly over the North pole but under (if any) jurisdiction? I.e. if one flew from either of the neighbouring states, Greenland (Denmark), Canada, Norway or Russia, are there any authorities to deal with to permit your flight? Or do just say am going and no one will say anything

Does anyone know of a group of pilots/network to tap into to provide assistance to achieve such a flight, does one talk to the FAI about this etc

Cheers in advance
LesothosPride is offline   Reply
Old 29th Nov 2012, 20:06   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 223
Not to sure what you mean by FAI (maybe FAA, has nothing to do with this though) and also you mean the Geographic North Pole not the Magnetic North Pole which is fairly easy to get at. Below is a link to an organization (in Canada) that would be able to help you with infos etc.

Make sure you plan properly, this is not a country that pardon easily.

JD



Polar Continental Shelf Program | Earth Sciences

Last edited by fijdor; 29th Nov 2012 at 20:07.
fijdor is offline   Reply
Old 20th Oct 2014, 10:37   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: europe
Posts: 9
FLIGHT TO NORTH POLE

Hi!

I am going with my plane to the geographic north pole at the end of march, a russian company is building a temporary runway for me and other few planes.

I have a spare seat and looking for someone to share the experience (and the expenses too )

anyone interested?
fly-4-ever is offline   Reply
Reply
 
 
 


Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:00.


vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network