From the ACPA itself.....
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From the ACPA itself.....
This is really rich...I saw it over at AVCANADA and had to help spread the good news. I won't forget the AC pilot who stole my Zippo lighter in the Arizona in 2001, who claimed." I make more money than I can spend."
Attention News/Labour Editors:
Talks break down between pilots, Air Canada
Company unresponsive on request for wage, pension improvements
TORONTO, June 9 /CNW/ - Negotiations between Air Canada and its pilots
have broken off after the company refused to offer any wage increases or
pension changes.
"We are disappointed with the lack of progress during the talks," says
Capt. Serge Beaulieu, spokesperson for the Air Canada Pilots Association
(ACPA). "We presented a very sound case for increasing the wages of pilots
that would not compromise the company's competitiveness, particularly in the
domestic market."
To prove its case, Air Canada's pilots presented information to the
company from a copy of the WestJet pilots' employment agreement, showing
evidence that WestJet pilots are paid more than their counterparts at Air
Canada, the nation's flagship, full-service carrier.
"WestJet pilots receive higher compensation and have better work rules in
some areas than we do at Air Canada," Beaulieu adds. "This information
confirmed what we had believed all along and counters Air Canada's assertion
that pilot wages need to remain low to be competitive."
When taking into account wages, which includes flight pay, paid training,
stock options and a share purchase plan, a captain flying a WestJet Boeing 737
earns approximately 13 per cent more than an Air Canada pilot flying Airbus
320. First officers at WestJet earn approximately 20 per cent more.
Internationally, Air Canada's pilot wages are lower when compared with
similar aircraft and airlines.
Air Canada and its pilots must now head to mediation, and potentially
arbitration, to settle the re-opener.
ACPA is the largest professional pilot group in Canada, representing
3,100 pilots who operate Air Canada's mainline fleet.
For further information: Carl Mavromichalis, ACPA Communications, (416)
578-2272; French Media Contact: Capt. Serge Beaulieu, ACPA Spokesperson, (514)
236-2243
Attention News/Labour Editors:
Talks break down between pilots, Air Canada
Company unresponsive on request for wage, pension improvements
TORONTO, June 9 /CNW/ - Negotiations between Air Canada and its pilots
have broken off after the company refused to offer any wage increases or
pension changes.
"We are disappointed with the lack of progress during the talks," says
Capt. Serge Beaulieu, spokesperson for the Air Canada Pilots Association
(ACPA). "We presented a very sound case for increasing the wages of pilots
that would not compromise the company's competitiveness, particularly in the
domestic market."
To prove its case, Air Canada's pilots presented information to the
company from a copy of the WestJet pilots' employment agreement, showing
evidence that WestJet pilots are paid more than their counterparts at Air
Canada, the nation's flagship, full-service carrier.
"WestJet pilots receive higher compensation and have better work rules in
some areas than we do at Air Canada," Beaulieu adds. "This information
confirmed what we had believed all along and counters Air Canada's assertion
that pilot wages need to remain low to be competitive."
When taking into account wages, which includes flight pay, paid training,
stock options and a share purchase plan, a captain flying a WestJet Boeing 737
earns approximately 13 per cent more than an Air Canada pilot flying Airbus
320. First officers at WestJet earn approximately 20 per cent more.
Internationally, Air Canada's pilot wages are lower when compared with
similar aircraft and airlines.
Air Canada and its pilots must now head to mediation, and potentially
arbitration, to settle the re-opener.
ACPA is the largest professional pilot group in Canada, representing
3,100 pilots who operate Air Canada's mainline fleet.
For further information: Carl Mavromichalis, ACPA Communications, (416)
578-2272; French Media Contact: Capt. Serge Beaulieu, ACPA Spokesperson, (514)
236-2243
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The answer may surprise you.....
Both sets of pilots do, my socialist friend. We've been down the "defined benefits" vs. the "defined contributions" road many times. There is no short answer, each has pros and cons.
Some easy math may surprise you, lets take a 40 yr old WJ Captain, who has, for now, has 20yrs of flying left. We'll say that after his 40th birthday party hangover subsides, he realizes that although he has a nice house, kids, truck, etc. and all of his bills are paid he only has 50k set aside toward his retirement.We start with this conservative number and add to it, about $46,000 per year. This is the amount he could save, 23k of his own, and 23k more from the company, all into the ESP plan. It's important to take this amount of company stock and diversify it appropriately as soon as practicable.(navcanada word). At a modest return rate of 8%, after 20 years, our hero will have $ 2,422,653 to resume drinking with.
I'm sure this plan will draw it's detractors and it has it's pitfalls, but it has some huge advantages over the defined benefit plan as well.
It's totally portable...one can take his/her savings thus far and at any time, abscond to Thailand with it.
One has control over ones own financial destiny.
The monetary potential is much higher than old school plans.
It is less costly for the hand that feeds you, thus enabling said hand to feed you more.
I'll put forth for your consideration that had you chosen a defined contribution plan when it was offered, your company may well be able to afford the higher salary that you desire, thus enabling your group to contribute handsomely to such a plan.
Some easy math may surprise you, lets take a 40 yr old WJ Captain, who has, for now, has 20yrs of flying left. We'll say that after his 40th birthday party hangover subsides, he realizes that although he has a nice house, kids, truck, etc. and all of his bills are paid he only has 50k set aside toward his retirement.We start with this conservative number and add to it, about $46,000 per year. This is the amount he could save, 23k of his own, and 23k more from the company, all into the ESP plan. It's important to take this amount of company stock and diversify it appropriately as soon as practicable.(navcanada word). At a modest return rate of 8%, after 20 years, our hero will have $ 2,422,653 to resume drinking with.
I'm sure this plan will draw it's detractors and it has it's pitfalls, but it has some huge advantages over the defined benefit plan as well.
It's totally portable...one can take his/her savings thus far and at any time, abscond to Thailand with it.
One has control over ones own financial destiny.
The monetary potential is much higher than old school plans.
It is less costly for the hand that feeds you, thus enabling said hand to feed you more.
I'll put forth for your consideration that had you chosen a defined contribution plan when it was offered, your company may well be able to afford the higher salary that you desire, thus enabling your group to contribute handsomely to such a plan.
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Originally Posted by Tan
"Hmm and which pilots have a pension...'
WestJet does not have a Pension Plan offered to it's employees.
What WestJet does do is offer to match, up to 20% of your salary, your contribution to the Employee Share Purchase Plan. Some of the people here participate in the plan and when the shares vest in a year's time, they sell their position and diversify their holding's with some financial advice.
What I like is that you can be as aggressive or as cautious as you like. Some hold the shares in an RRSP and use that as their nest-egg for retirement. Some sell the portion that the company matches and let the other half ride. Some sell it all and let a Professional at Fidelity or other fund house manage their portfolio inside an RRSP.
It allows one to be as Risk Tolerant or Risk Adverse as one likes. I had worked at a place where 5% of my salary was deducted for a pension and was matched with the Company putting in 5%. I'm quite happy with WestJet matching my 20%. Or less as the case may be, you can decide what percentage you contribute...
With Pension's in the 'States being attacked at Delta, United and NorthWest I don't find being without a "Company Pension" a bad thing... I have some control over where and what my retirement funds are doing...
Cheers.
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Originally Posted by le soixante neuf
Both sets of pilots do, my socialist friend. We've been down the "defined benefits" vs. the "defined contributions" road many times. There is no short answer, each has pros and cons.
Some easy math may surprise you, lets take a 40 yr old WJ Captain, who has, for now, has 20yrs of flying left. We'll say that after his 40th birthday party hangover subsides, he realizes that although he has a nice house, kids, truck, etc. and all of his bills are paid he only has 50k set aside toward his retirement.We start with this conservative number and add to it, about $46,000 per year. This is the amount he could save, 23k of his own, and 23k more from the company, all into the ESP plan. It's important to take this amount of company stock and diversify it appropriately as soon as practicable.(navcanada word). At a modest return rate of 8%, after 20 years, our hero will have $ 2,422,653 to resume drinking with.
I'm sure this plan will draw it's detractors and it has it's pitfalls, but it has some huge advantages over the defined benefit plan as well.
It's totally portable...one can take his/her savings thus far and at any time, abscond to Thailand with it.
One has control over ones own financial destiny.
The monetary potential is much higher than old school plans.
It is less costly for the hand that feeds you, thus enabling said hand to feed you more.
I'll put forth for your consideration that had you chosen a defined contribution plan when it was offered, your company may well be able to afford the higher salary that you desire, thus enabling your group to contribute handsomely to such a plan.
Some easy math may surprise you, lets take a 40 yr old WJ Captain, who has, for now, has 20yrs of flying left. We'll say that after his 40th birthday party hangover subsides, he realizes that although he has a nice house, kids, truck, etc. and all of his bills are paid he only has 50k set aside toward his retirement.We start with this conservative number and add to it, about $46,000 per year. This is the amount he could save, 23k of his own, and 23k more from the company, all into the ESP plan. It's important to take this amount of company stock and diversify it appropriately as soon as practicable.(navcanada word). At a modest return rate of 8%, after 20 years, our hero will have $ 2,422,653 to resume drinking with.
I'm sure this plan will draw it's detractors and it has it's pitfalls, but it has some huge advantages over the defined benefit plan as well.
It's totally portable...one can take his/her savings thus far and at any time, abscond to Thailand with it.
One has control over ones own financial destiny.
The monetary potential is much higher than old school plans.
It is less costly for the hand that feeds you, thus enabling said hand to feed you more.
I'll put forth for your consideration that had you chosen a defined contribution plan when it was offered, your company may well be able to afford the higher salary that you desire, thus enabling your group to contribute handsomely to such a plan.
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still broke
Lets see.....ACE Holdings posts a 118 million profit but Air Canada still posts an overall operting loss of 10 million.....still broke and near bankruptcy again.....ACE is selling the furniture and phones to get what it can before it liquidates in the near future.....73 dollars a can for oil...not long to go.....
