British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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The way back
There probably is one now for striking CC.
However, I hear that Bassa/Unite are thinking about a longer strike.
That will entrench attitudes on both sides. Each side will think they have more personal capital and money invested in the IA.
The longer this goes on, the more difficult it will be to find a way back.
In the '80s there was a miners' strike. Many of the current CC may not remember it because they are too young.
Let me say now, it was terrible for the miners and their families for whom there was real hardship and deprivation. People were forced back to work because of lack of money, and on managements' terms.
I realise that just by making a comparison between that dispute and this may harden some peoples resolve to carry on the IA "to the end". However for all of your sakes don't go down that road.
Remember, this dispute is about reducing the number of cabin crew on L/H flights by one. That is why you are striking.
Now is the time to find a way to negotiate
However, I hear that Bassa/Unite are thinking about a longer strike.
That will entrench attitudes on both sides. Each side will think they have more personal capital and money invested in the IA.
The longer this goes on, the more difficult it will be to find a way back.
In the '80s there was a miners' strike. Many of the current CC may not remember it because they are too young.
Let me say now, it was terrible for the miners and their families for whom there was real hardship and deprivation. People were forced back to work because of lack of money, and on managements' terms.
I realise that just by making a comparison between that dispute and this may harden some peoples resolve to carry on the IA "to the end". However for all of your sakes don't go down that road.
Remember, this dispute is about reducing the number of cabin crew on L/H flights by one. That is why you are striking.
Now is the time to find a way to negotiate
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One of the 'fables' of Galley FM is that the BASSA chair allegedly called Mr Walsh a C**t to his face. Crew who believe this, and there are many, regard this kind of alleged behaviour as sign of the 'toughness' of their leader. For me it illustrates the banality and amateurish 'nous' of a council charged with an important role.
The notion that this dispute is now about the protection of CC T&C's is laughable, particularly in this economic environment. The BASSA chair has pressed her own 'nuclear' button in pursuit of what she regards as her Holy Grail - the removal of Mr Walsh. The UNITE leadership, I am sure, are seething with BASSA intransigence. The rest of the BA workforce certainly is. Never before have I seen a group of mis-guided 'strikers' so marginalised, as the day-to-day operation continues to ramp up towards a level of capability where 'no-shows' will have no effect.
The BA plan is working, not without hitches, but it is rolling forward. The City know it, the Shareholders know it, the BA Backers know it. Sadly, the 'believers' are yet to 'smell the coffee'.
nurj
The notion that this dispute is now about the protection of CC T&C's is laughable, particularly in this economic environment. The BASSA chair has pressed her own 'nuclear' button in pursuit of what she regards as her Holy Grail - the removal of Mr Walsh. The UNITE leadership, I am sure, are seething with BASSA intransigence. The rest of the BA workforce certainly is. Never before have I seen a group of mis-guided 'strikers' so marginalised, as the day-to-day operation continues to ramp up towards a level of capability where 'no-shows' will have no effect.
The BA plan is working, not without hitches, but it is rolling forward. The City know it, the Shareholders know it, the BA Backers know it. Sadly, the 'believers' are yet to 'smell the coffee'.
nurj
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Ms Malone's Madouros Mis-Adventure
Dear Ms Malone
I would like to ask you two questions;
Thank you.
I would like to ask you two questions;
- I cannot find a single example where a strike succeeded in forcing a CEO to be removed despite them enjoying obvious support from their key backers (Chair, Board, Non-Execs and large Stockholders). So why do you think your current strategy is different?
- Why is a vendetta against a single individual (WW) sufficient for you to jeopardise your members livelihoods to the extent you have? Who will rescue them if tens, hundreds or even thousands are subsequently laid off?
Thank you.
Last edited by demomonkey; 30th Mar 2010 at 09:47. Reason: Typos/grammar
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Think about it
BASSA/UNITE have led you up the garden path for their own political means. It is undeniable. Of course, the lefties among the 'group' are aware of it and it's their duty to convince you otherwise.
Why not look ahead and plan you life and that of your family assuming that you will remain an employee with BA. Please do not look back in anger when it's too late.
Maybe take your anger and frustrations to UNITE/BASSA that have dealt with this in such a despicable manner (unquestionable!), and head to another union that will better represent your cause.
Think about it.
Why not look ahead and plan you life and that of your family assuming that you will remain an employee with BA. Please do not look back in anger when it's too late.
Maybe take your anger and frustrations to UNITE/BASSA that have dealt with this in such a despicable manner (unquestionable!), and head to another union that will better represent your cause.
Think about it.
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Strike Breaking
A number of VCC ( no not the Nigels ) have expressed an interest in becoming full time crew.
This gives BA a very neat way of recruiting "new" crew within the 12 week legal minimum...
VCC continue as voluntiers , BA recruit new groundstaff etc due operational reasons entirely legally. Strikers are no longer required.
I think I'd be negociating right now.
This gives BA a very neat way of recruiting "new" crew within the 12 week legal minimum...
VCC continue as voluntiers , BA recruit new groundstaff etc due operational reasons entirely legally. Strikers are no longer required.
I think I'd be negociating right now.
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One day WW decides that he needs to save big money from the flight deck community, there is talk of him advertsiing for Pilots to work with BA for half the wage of some of your top paid flight crew. The SCOPE agreement is out the window He also says that no longer are you allowed to bid for transfers to fly other aircraft, change fleet, get your command, unless you agree to new contracts, wages, terms & conditions if your a FO on the airbus you will stay a FO on the airbus forever, no command, you will lose days off down route and maybe at home, unless you agree to sign a new contract and agree to new terms, conditions, lower pay............. get the picture so far. dont forget I am cabin crew so I know some of this wouldnt happen but I did ask you to just think, he wants to put into practice all the things that would threaten your working practices, family life & career....
The Pay cut is relevant though.....but that came from the union.
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Wishful,
I would go off to Lufthansa where the pilots earn almost twice what the BA pilots do (LH Captain Lufthansa Euro:249,000) even taking into account the exchange rate.
Vote with your feet.
Vorsprung durch technic. Deutschland ist auch ein viel besser land zu leben.
I would go off to Lufthansa where the pilots earn almost twice what the BA pilots do (LH Captain Lufthansa Euro:249,000) even taking into account the exchange rate.
Vote with your feet.
Vorsprung durch technic. Deutschland ist auch ein viel besser land zu leben.
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Wishful Thinking,
It's an interesting scenario and perhaps it all boils down to how long it trains to do each job. Sadly for striking cabin crew, it takes 3 days for a pilot to train to do their job and only 3 weeks to train anybody else.
This puts cabin crew in a very weak bargaining position - something BASSA might have factored in to their negotiating stance, IMHO. Nobody is indispensable. As someone wrote elsewhere, even JFK was replaced in under and hour, and he was the most powerful man on the planet.
It's an interesting scenario and perhaps it all boils down to how long it trains to do each job. Sadly for striking cabin crew, it takes 3 days for a pilot to train to do their job and only 3 weeks to train anybody else.
This puts cabin crew in a very weak bargaining position - something BASSA might have factored in to their negotiating stance, IMHO. Nobody is indispensable. As someone wrote elsewhere, even JFK was replaced in under and hour, and he was the most powerful man on the planet.
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Morning, FlexSRS
Thanks for answering my questions, I was hoping to hear from bacabincrew as he/she made the original post.
Had a nice flight home, great crew, great customers, relaxed atmosphere and on time.
Had a nice flight home, great crew, great customers, relaxed atmosphere and on time.
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This hypothetical scenario is interesting but what has already been touched upon is that pilots pay and conditions is on par with other airlines in the UK including our low cost competitors. CC have had it very good for far too long while showing unwillingness to change. It's now come to a head due to the world in which we now live in.
Unite/BASSA were mad to turn down the original offer in June and I feel that they are starting to regret not giving the majority of their members a chance to look at this more. Members who I believe will now vote using their feet by leaving the unions who are apparantly there to protect their pay and conditions and not for political gain and influence in the labour party.
Unite/BASSA were mad to turn down the original offer in June and I feel that they are starting to regret not giving the majority of their members a chance to look at this more. Members who I believe will now vote using their feet by leaving the unions who are apparantly there to protect their pay and conditions and not for political gain and influence in the labour party.
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Battles
I always understood that in military terms it was always better to fight a battle you could win. Choose the terrain, time etc. Should it all go horribly wrong, too many casualties etc then make a stategic withdrawal.
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Whilst I think the words bullying and harassment are bandied around a little too freely to encompass anything that the recipient doesn't like, I'm not sure I'd be all that proud of the mob baying at the windows of the Arora.
Cheers
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And So It Goes On.......
Another great day yesterday; it really seems that the morale of the airline as a whole is at an all time high. And so many flights now listing as 'FULL CREW' too, it's really great to see On just about every flight I saw there was a dogged determination by all, crew, engineers, TRM's and ground staff to get each flight away ASAP, again with smiles all round. And what a different spirit we are all seeing in the CC that are operating, no matter what the mix of full time CC/volunteers actually is; genuine professionalism and warmth towards our customers. These guys and gals put the rest 'out there in Bedfont' to shame, and that is the opinion of most ground staff and pilots alike. (Not to mention our customers!!).
Whatever you care to call these BASSA 'martyrs' out there on strike, be it Lizzy's Lemmings, McCluskeys Morons or what, this airline has been a far better place without them. If they can't see that they are being used as pathetic little pawns in UNITE's grand political game, then they are even MORE naive than we all thought. (If that were at all possible). Not a SINGLE valid point has been registered by the 'pro-strike' lobby, NOT ONE. They 'aint getting #15 back, ever, so why don't they all just deal with it. The ONLY people who wanted to reduce their wages and change their T's & C's were their own ****ing union. Oh, and now they have cost them their staff travel too ....duuuh!!!
This is a general message from most of us out there, the rest of the airline: 'When you come back to work, you are going to see a rather different airline to the one that you are used to, and when you decide to walk out the door again, well maybe it's a good idea to just keep walking'. Oh, and PLEASE stop complaining about the loss of your staff travel, you were warned, and warned and warned again. You all should of thought of that before you decided to be walking through Bedfont'. Don't blame WW, the LT or the airline as a whole, blame BASSA/UNITE/KGB. If some of you DO decide to see sense, and have the courage to work through Len's next planned debacle, then you wll be welcomed by all with open arms.
And now your UNITE masters are levying all union members to raise money for your 'crusade'. The general response to this last straw by a HUGE number of staff is to cancel their UNITE membership and tell the union to stuff their membership up their yashmak!! This is happening people, they are leaving in droves.
Oh, and I'm pleased to report that there are still NO broken CRA door locks in the cabin log, funny that these reports have completely stopped since the strike began.... food for thought.
I just saw the YOUTUBE video; what a bunch of morons. If the CC that are working are 'Scabs' (a scab is protecting a wound from further damage, and speeds up the healing process) then I guess we must assume that the strikers are..... FESTERING SORES. (Now there's a chant).
Whatever you care to call these BASSA 'martyrs' out there on strike, be it Lizzy's Lemmings, McCluskeys Morons or what, this airline has been a far better place without them. If they can't see that they are being used as pathetic little pawns in UNITE's grand political game, then they are even MORE naive than we all thought. (If that were at all possible). Not a SINGLE valid point has been registered by the 'pro-strike' lobby, NOT ONE. They 'aint getting #15 back, ever, so why don't they all just deal with it. The ONLY people who wanted to reduce their wages and change their T's & C's were their own ****ing union. Oh, and now they have cost them their staff travel too ....duuuh!!!
This is a general message from most of us out there, the rest of the airline: 'When you come back to work, you are going to see a rather different airline to the one that you are used to, and when you decide to walk out the door again, well maybe it's a good idea to just keep walking'. Oh, and PLEASE stop complaining about the loss of your staff travel, you were warned, and warned and warned again. You all should of thought of that before you decided to be walking through Bedfont'. Don't blame WW, the LT or the airline as a whole, blame BASSA/UNITE/KGB. If some of you DO decide to see sense, and have the courage to work through Len's next planned debacle, then you wll be welcomed by all with open arms.
And now your UNITE masters are levying all union members to raise money for your 'crusade'. The general response to this last straw by a HUGE number of staff is to cancel their UNITE membership and tell the union to stuff their membership up their yashmak!! This is happening people, they are leaving in droves.
Oh, and I'm pleased to report that there are still NO broken CRA door locks in the cabin log, funny that these reports have completely stopped since the strike began.... food for thought.
I just saw the YOUTUBE video; what a bunch of morons. If the CC that are working are 'Scabs' (a scab is protecting a wound from further damage, and speeds up the healing process) then I guess we must assume that the strikers are..... FESTERING SORES. (Now there's a chant).
Last edited by M2dude; 30th Mar 2010 at 11:09. Reason: YouTube video
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Originally Posted by HotelMode
Its here Eddy
YouTube - British Airways cabin crew on strike 2010 - march on Bath Road
YouTube - British Airways cabin crew on strike 2010 - march on Bath Road
We should be able to conduct ourselves peacefully, graciously, and with dignity instead of behaving like an angry mob.
That hotel is occupied now by more Virgin and Emirates crew than it is by British Airways crew. All of these people will have been trying to get rest for their flights and they'll have had that rest very rudely and abruptly disturbed.
With BA having clearly got the upper hand, thoughts at Waterside must be turning to the nature of the eventual peace. As many have commented, the prospect of the return of a large number of off-side workers in the key customer facing area is not necessarily a happy one, nor is it likely that the recovery of the BA brand will be made any easier with the continued and potentially divisive presence of those who have shown a more hardened disdain for their employer over and above the basic withdrawal of their labour. In short, does BA really want everyone back or is there an argument for saying that we're moving on, on our terms, with or without you?
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BASSA and Unite really need to stop coming out with made up stories - they are making themselves look more and more ridiculous to the public.
The latest today is Unite claiming that BA has being rushing out handwritten payslips showing staff how much money they have lost.
This has been quickly denied by BA who point out that payslips are automated, and they would never issue handwritten payslips (i'm quite sure BA's auditors wouldn't even allow them to)
I know who I believe, and it just makes the union look ridiculous when they come out with these make belive stories just to get in the newspaper
The latest today is Unite claiming that BA has being rushing out handwritten payslips showing staff how much money they have lost.
This has been quickly denied by BA who point out that payslips are automated, and they would never issue handwritten payslips (i'm quite sure BA's auditors wouldn't even allow them to)
I know who I believe, and it just makes the union look ridiculous when they come out with these make belive stories just to get in the newspaper
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Willie vs Tony
In today's Daily Mirror, an open letter from WW to Tony Woodley - and vice versa: Woody versus Willie: Unite chief Tony Woodley and British Airways boss Willie Walsh in their own words - mirror.co.uk
A little snippet:
A little snippet:
Ten days ago, before the first strike, we put a fair and sensible offer to Unite. The union rejected it - without consulting crew.
So I say to you: give your members a voice. Let cabin crew vote on the offer put forward.
It includes a four-year deal on pay - with a freeze in year one and then rises of up to 3% or 4%. Existing crew would stay the bestrewarded in the UK industry. Even though the courts say we do not have to, we have addressed Unite's main demand for more crew on flights.
We would recruit 184 extra staff.
The offer also paves the way for new long-haul opportunities for Gatwick crew, who would like a bigger network and are paid significantly less than their Heathrow colleagues. And it sets out a plan to modernise our industrial relations so we can avoid this kind of damaging dispute in the future.
So I say to you: give your members a voice. Let cabin crew vote on the offer put forward.
It includes a four-year deal on pay - with a freeze in year one and then rises of up to 3% or 4%. Existing crew would stay the bestrewarded in the UK industry. Even though the courts say we do not have to, we have addressed Unite's main demand for more crew on flights.
We would recruit 184 extra staff.
The offer also paves the way for new long-haul opportunities for Gatwick crew, who would like a bigger network and are paid significantly less than their Heathrow colleagues. And it sets out a plan to modernise our industrial relations so we can avoid this kind of damaging dispute in the future.