British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Can we discuss this punish word. Does this collective thread think that strikers should be punished?
1. The offer that is on the table now, is the same one that has been on the table for the last few weeks.
2. It is also BETTER than the one that was on the table in March, that TW BEGGED WW to put back on the table during the last strike (2yr paydeal iso 4).
3. The offer is worse than the one that was rejected last year, that also had share scheme, bonuses, and an extra free ticket attached.
4. Two weeks ago BA offered that IF no strikes went ahead, and IF UNITE accepted the offer they would get ST back, albeit with a DOJ of Oct.
Therefore, rather than asking questions of us Litebulbs, surely it is your duty as a rep to ask these questions of your union:
If the offer is largely the same as all previous offers, WHY is it now suddenly so acceptable? What has all the striking been for if the offer is now acceptable?
If ST is the only sticking point, why did UNITE not negotiate around this two weeks ago when staff travel was back on the table?
What have they achieved by the strikes?
What do they hope to achieve by continuing to strike?
I look forward to hearing the replies Litebulbs.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my viewpoint and not that of BA.
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I think that is part of the point being made by ptc, the is no union worth talking to as nobody is listening to them. Clearly their members on mass are all in CRC and going to work.
I can see BA reinstating more and more flights every day, till no difference is seen during the strike period.
To all those outside on the picket lines and just not coming into work Im sorry to tell you this is all over for your union, not only have BA out witted you but the union Unite/Bassa are both using the media to destroy their own credibility by publicly highlighting each others errors!!!.
This is all about to end soon.
And from the burning ashes of the old BASSA, with its outdated agreements will rise "new fleet".
ptc,
I would take it up with the union
I would take it up with the union
I can see BA reinstating more and more flights every day, till no difference is seen during the strike period.
To all those outside on the picket lines and just not coming into work Im sorry to tell you this is all over for your union, not only have BA out witted you but the union Unite/Bassa are both using the media to destroy their own credibility by publicly highlighting each others errors!!!.
This is all about to end soon.
And from the burning ashes of the old BASSA, with its outdated agreements will rise "new fleet".
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Well said top bunk.....Lots of groundstaff worked through the first strike,ash cloud ect and no thanks....Fair enough we are doing our job, but not even a thankyou!!!!Thats Mr Walsh all over....
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The ST issue has unfortunately become less one of punishment than of credibility. Imagine if after the strike is over, outcome is as follows: The union threatened to withdraw labour & cost BA tens of millions - and it did just that. BA tried to dissuade CC from striking by warning everyone that if this happened then it would definitely remove ST from strikers - but then it didn't. Where would that leave BA in future negotiations? We have been repeatedly told on this forum that part of reason for the hefty pro-strike votes was a belief that BA was only bluffing (as previous CEO's have done)and that any sanctions would be undone as part of settlement, i.e. heads you win a better deal, tails you don't lose anything. The union has also staked its credibility on reinstatement. If that IS proved to be the result, any credibility of BA threats in future negotiations would be lost. WW knows this, and also that if he isn't willing to see it through then he will leave the union reinvigorated and his successors vulnerable to an early repeat performance.
Last but not least, I wonder about the union's recent elevation of ST to become the headline issue, since it is one area where the public is unlikely to have very much sympathy, particularly coming into the holiday season when tens of thousands of working people are threatened with having their paid and hard earned vacations disrupted so that "the Pimms drinking and BMW driving" (not my words - see today's press) cabin crew can enjoy unlimited freebies in their allegedly ample spare time. This shift of focus from issues with which the rest of the UK workforce can identify might prove another faux pas in a rather badly run campaign.
It is certainly arguable as to whether ST was a particularly wise or effective card for BA to have played - clearly it wasn't enough to stop the strikes happening - but having done so, it is probably committed to having to press on.
Last but not least, I wonder about the union's recent elevation of ST to become the headline issue, since it is one area where the public is unlikely to have very much sympathy, particularly coming into the holiday season when tens of thousands of working people are threatened with having their paid and hard earned vacations disrupted so that "the Pimms drinking and BMW driving" (not my words - see today's press) cabin crew can enjoy unlimited freebies in their allegedly ample spare time. This shift of focus from issues with which the rest of the UK workforce can identify might prove another faux pas in a rather badly run campaign.
It is certainly arguable as to whether ST was a particularly wise or effective card for BA to have played - clearly it wasn't enough to stop the strikes happening - but having done so, it is probably committed to having to press on.
BA is a great company, but loosing money. There is very little public support for the striking CC, and what there is appears to be militant. Rightly or wrongly, I think the public perception is that BA CC are on a good package, but dont know it.
Those who choose to strike, and stay within the law, should have their contracts honoured. But as I understand it, the ST's and non-contractual, and strikers should loose those rights. And for the reasons (quoted) above, WW and BB should not re-instate them for those who strike.
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What is BASSA's breaking point?
Apparently BA ran 60%ish loghaul flights yesterday and 50%ish shorthaul. I'm wondering what the figures need to be for those gathered at BFC to realise their cause is totally lost?
I'm also wondering why BA aren't making better use of VCC. Clearly they need to ensure that there is some margin for error in the number of CC projected to turn up for work, but surely the more flights they can crew, the sooner they can totally marginalise those on strike. I'm therefore surprised that so few VCC are being used.
I'm also wondering why BA aren't making better use of VCC. Clearly they need to ensure that there is some margin for error in the number of CC projected to turn up for work, but surely the more flights they can crew, the sooner they can totally marginalise those on strike. I'm therefore surprised that so few VCC are being used.
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So, what do we make of BA painting 12 x 777's with :-
"KEEPING THE FLAG FLYING"
I think it says, the game is up and come back to work or it will be your loss .... any other views ?
No doubt the Woodley gang will be outside saying that BA is losing money and is wasting more by painting planes/not sorting out the CC problems bla bla bla bla bla bla ... it's so predictable!
"KEEPING THE FLAG FLYING"
I think it says, the game is up and come back to work or it will be your loss .... any other views ?
No doubt the Woodley gang will be outside saying that BA is losing money and is wasting more by painting planes/not sorting out the CC problems bla bla bla bla bla bla ... it's so predictable!
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James 5678 - figures mean exactly what you would like them to mean. IF...and a big one at that...the figures for yesterday were near correct bear in mind many flights left totally empty. As for all those crew mulling around in the CRC, the vast majority are misguided groundstaff who see this as an escape from their normal jobs.
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James
Having the VCC unused is the better option.
For BA it is better to under promise and then over deliver (i.e. reduce the schedule and then comprehensively fly it) then over promise and under deliver (i.e promise to fly the full schedule and then find that you can't!)
The latter would play into BASSA's hands with media reports of T5 full of stranded and upset passengers.
The current plan has all BA pax getting to their destination via a variety of routes. The VCC are there to ensure BA can do that. As the strike starts to fade away it will be a balance of adding additional services and allowing the VCC to return to their normal roles.
Having the VCC unused is the better option.
For BA it is better to under promise and then over deliver (i.e. reduce the schedule and then comprehensively fly it) then over promise and under deliver (i.e promise to fly the full schedule and then find that you can't!)
The latter would play into BASSA's hands with media reports of T5 full of stranded and upset passengers.
The current plan has all BA pax getting to their destination via a variety of routes. The VCC are there to ensure BA can do that. As the strike starts to fade away it will be a balance of adding additional services and allowing the VCC to return to their normal roles.
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Whether the aircraft were empty or not was BA's doing as they had already transferred passengers to other flights, crew numbers are what's important. Whether or not the groundcrew are misguided or not is again irrelevant, they were still there in numbers and still able to perform their cabin crew duties with minimum training.
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A freind of mine just emailed me this...oops!
BASSA > Latest News
DAY 8 IN THE "BEDFONT BIG BROTHER HOUSE"
May 24th, 2010 by admin
Day Eight
Our dispute remains unresolved, so Bedfont came slowly to life once more, this time with a later 8am start.
We faced different logistical problems, last time our priority was keeping people warm, this time the exact opposite. The seasons have changed but our resolve hasn’t.
It was absolutely scorching hot. Our facilities have been a little revamped, so the marquee is now able to serve hot and cold drinks and offer some welcome shade.
There was a different atmosphere this time around, we all felt it, not as frenetic and intense as our last time, more determined and a quiet resolve.
This time we have made a decision not to be drawn into a statistical war of words over percentages of percentages of percentages with the BA spin machine. It is simply counter productive.
The numbers of crew striking or reporting, for better or for worse, are what they are and nothing will change that, so we intend to leave that area alone.
We were pleased with the attendance on day one though numbers were probably a little down on the attendances of the final days of the last strike dates, this will either indicate that people recognise that this is going to be a long haul, so will pace themselves accordingly and spread their attendance or, some crew still haven’t woken up to what is staring them in the face and gone to work, nothing will change that now, so what will be, will be.
PLEASE READ THIS AND PASS IT ON
Mr Walsh has indicated his team is to “busy” to attend any peace talks with our General Secretaries until Thursday.
His strategy for this is being widely reported, as “testing your resolve”, if people are willing to break the strike, he knows he doesn’t have to move his position one inch towards a settlement, he can simply bide his time and impose, safe in the knowledge that people are just not interested. If the strike is solid he will need to compromise and reach a fair settlement. So your future remains in your hands.
Simple as that, what happens next is up to every single one of you due to report tomorrow and the days that follow.
*Unite General secretary Tony Woodley, will be attending Bedfont on Wednesday afternoon, please come along and meet him. This is your opportunity to talk with him and answer any questions that you may have on his negotiations with Mr Walsh.
Now where’s that suncream!
DAY 8 IN THE "BEDFONT BIG BROTHER HOUSE"
May 24th, 2010 by admin
Day Eight
Our dispute remains unresolved, so Bedfont came slowly to life once more, this time with a later 8am start.
We faced different logistical problems, last time our priority was keeping people warm, this time the exact opposite. The seasons have changed but our resolve hasn’t.
It was absolutely scorching hot. Our facilities have been a little revamped, so the marquee is now able to serve hot and cold drinks and offer some welcome shade.
There was a different atmosphere this time around, we all felt it, not as frenetic and intense as our last time, more determined and a quiet resolve.
This time we have made a decision not to be drawn into a statistical war of words over percentages of percentages of percentages with the BA spin machine. It is simply counter productive.
The numbers of crew striking or reporting, for better or for worse, are what they are and nothing will change that, so we intend to leave that area alone.
We were pleased with the attendance on day one though numbers were probably a little down on the attendances of the final days of the last strike dates, this will either indicate that people recognise that this is going to be a long haul, so will pace themselves accordingly and spread their attendance or, some crew still haven’t woken up to what is staring them in the face and gone to work, nothing will change that now, so what will be, will be.
PLEASE READ THIS AND PASS IT ON
Mr Walsh has indicated his team is to “busy” to attend any peace talks with our General Secretaries until Thursday.
His strategy for this is being widely reported, as “testing your resolve”, if people are willing to break the strike, he knows he doesn’t have to move his position one inch towards a settlement, he can simply bide his time and impose, safe in the knowledge that people are just not interested. If the strike is solid he will need to compromise and reach a fair settlement. So your future remains in your hands.
Simple as that, what happens next is up to every single one of you due to report tomorrow and the days that follow.
*Unite General secretary Tony Woodley, will be attending Bedfont on Wednesday afternoon, please come along and meet him. This is your opportunity to talk with him and answer any questions that you may have on his negotiations with Mr Walsh.
Now where’s that suncream!
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Juan are you taking the piss? Do you really think this is desperation? It's showing the general public confidence that BA will keep on flying and perhaps also the confidence to keep booking with us with a sense of national pride for our Union Jack.
I am amazed with the amount of ignorance on display. You keep believing Walsh is desperate and will give in, I do suspect that you will find yourself out of a job sometime in June
I am amazed with the amount of ignorance on display. You keep believing Walsh is desperate and will give in, I do suspect that you will find yourself out of a job sometime in June
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In PR terms Willie is playing a blinder! The plane painting is Branson genius..and while he is on a charm offensive, reassuring the public and ensuring the service that was paid for is provided, UNITE are tweeting at Wembley and saying the low turn out is due to weather and it being a Monday..
Seriously - who would you back to win?
The plane painting is Branson genius..and while he is on a charm offensive, reassuring the public and ensuring the service that was paid for is provided, UNITE are tweeting at Wembley and saying the low turn out is due to weather and it being a Monday.. Seriously - who would you back to win?
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HiFlyer
Therefore, rather than asking questions of us Litebulbs, surely it is your duty as a rep to ask these questions of your union:
If the offer is largely the same as all previous offers, WHY is it now suddenly so acceptable? What has all the striking been for if the offer is now acceptable?
Who says it is acceptable? The JGS's are in negotiation. They probably believe that if staff travel is reinstated, then a subsequent ballot might go through. Whether it will or not is down to what support the current action receives over the coming days
If ST is the only sticking point, why did UNITE not negotiate around this two weeks ago when staff travel was back on the table?
On that point, I thought that they did, but that is a conclusion I have made, from what I have read
What have they achieved by the strikes?
What do they hope to achieve by continuing to strike?
What have they achieved? They have made it clear that whatever the outcome, that there will be a huge industrial relations problem going forward.
If the offer is largely the same as all previous offers, WHY is it now suddenly so acceptable? What has all the striking been for if the offer is now acceptable?
Who says it is acceptable? The JGS's are in negotiation. They probably believe that if staff travel is reinstated, then a subsequent ballot might go through. Whether it will or not is down to what support the current action receives over the coming days
If ST is the only sticking point, why did UNITE not negotiate around this two weeks ago when staff travel was back on the table?
On that point, I thought that they did, but that is a conclusion I have made, from what I have read
What have they achieved by the strikes?
What do they hope to achieve by continuing to strike?
What have they achieved? They have made it clear that whatever the outcome, that there will be a huge industrial relations problem going forward.
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Just back from Scotland, full both ways... On the way up we had "commuters" , that special kind of human beings that believe that the sun rises from their a..., they are constantly cold and tired etc etc... they were on hotlines and we could spot them because of the killing looks they were giving us.
They were the only ones ingoring my "good morning" while I was standing by the exits and the only ones to have forgotten "please" when ordering a gin and tonic at 6am... Such rudeness...
Cabin crew are not coming to work because of the money. We come because we are sick of Bassa and their fans, we are sick of being patronised by their stupid texts, e mails, letters, we are sick of having bassa conquering our brains and guiding us to destruction... I am slightly ashamed being crew, everyone thinks we are stupid, but hey, we create and live to the reputation...
Should they be punished? YES THEY SHOULD BE SUCKED!
Report from crc, busy...yesterday and today, but not hectic as flights were going normally. Like an ordinary day, just with more smiling faces...
bassa says it currently has 9939 members... long gone the days that they were claiming they have 12,000 members! to check it, go to bassa.co.uk, about us and the number is shown... You dont have to lig in or be a member to see that...seems two more people joined since yesterday...alarming!
Hope it reduces to 1 digit number soon... 0
Tiramisu, shame i was not in your flight...I was looking forward to my crispy kreme... And coffee and muffins were not free either!!!
Have a nice day everybody!
They were the only ones ingoring my "good morning" while I was standing by the exits and the only ones to have forgotten "please" when ordering a gin and tonic at 6am... Such rudeness...
Cabin crew are not coming to work because of the money. We come because we are sick of Bassa and their fans, we are sick of being patronised by their stupid texts, e mails, letters, we are sick of having bassa conquering our brains and guiding us to destruction... I am slightly ashamed being crew, everyone thinks we are stupid, but hey, we create and live to the reputation...
Should they be punished? YES THEY SHOULD BE SUCKED!
Report from crc, busy...yesterday and today, but not hectic as flights were going normally. Like an ordinary day, just with more smiling faces...
bassa says it currently has 9939 members... long gone the days that they were claiming they have 12,000 members! to check it, go to bassa.co.uk, about us and the number is shown... You dont have to lig in or be a member to see that...seems two more people joined since yesterday...alarming!
Hope it reduces to 1 digit number soon... 0
Tiramisu, shame i was not in your flight...I was looking forward to my crispy kreme... And coffee and muffins were not free either!!!
Have a nice day everybody!
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BA cabin crew strike holding well
25th May 2010
Evidence shows that BA is over rostering. This is to provide the company with a "cushion" so that should "real" crew fail to show, BA has a fall back. The company is also including in yesterday's figures of those who reported for work international cabin crew (who are not on strike) and those on 24-hour stand-by (a higher than usual number have been rostered) who are then told to report for ground duties (so counted in figures as working).
834 staff were rostered yesterday. This is essentially the crew number for a full schedule but BA only planning to run 60 per cent service. So putting on 40 per cent more staff then they need.
Worldwide flights - Yesterday 473 staff did not turn up to work. 361 reported but this includes: temporary crew, international crew, ground volunteers (strike-breakers). This is around 56 per cent on strike.
There is evidence that BA is using more 24 hour shift schedules to give it more flexibility.
Euro fleet- 274 staff did not report to work. 248 went in, but on a normal day there would have 1,000 staff. Unite believes BA is rostering to reduced schedule as on this fleet the company can use more ground staff as they can come and go in one day (the journeys are short so they don't have to stay away).
Tony Woodley, Unite joint general secretary, said: "This strike is now in day nine. The meter is running at £7 million per day, which means BA has lost £63 million at least on the strike - and that is before it counts the cost of business lost when passengers look elsewhere during the peak summer period.
"On what planet does it make sound business sense to spend shareholders' and investors' money this way? Or to allow this instability to drag on? The solution lies with Willie Walsh. He must waste no further time or resources but instead work with us to settle this strike."
ENDS
25th May 2010
Evidence shows that BA is over rostering. This is to provide the company with a "cushion" so that should "real" crew fail to show, BA has a fall back. The company is also including in yesterday's figures of those who reported for work international cabin crew (who are not on strike) and those on 24-hour stand-by (a higher than usual number have been rostered) who are then told to report for ground duties (so counted in figures as working).
834 staff were rostered yesterday. This is essentially the crew number for a full schedule but BA only planning to run 60 per cent service. So putting on 40 per cent more staff then they need.
Worldwide flights - Yesterday 473 staff did not turn up to work. 361 reported but this includes: temporary crew, international crew, ground volunteers (strike-breakers). This is around 56 per cent on strike.
There is evidence that BA is using more 24 hour shift schedules to give it more flexibility.
Euro fleet- 274 staff did not report to work. 248 went in, but on a normal day there would have 1,000 staff. Unite believes BA is rostering to reduced schedule as on this fleet the company can use more ground staff as they can come and go in one day (the journeys are short so they don't have to stay away).
Tony Woodley, Unite joint general secretary, said: "This strike is now in day nine. The meter is running at £7 million per day, which means BA has lost £63 million at least on the strike - and that is before it counts the cost of business lost when passengers look elsewhere during the peak summer period.
"On what planet does it make sound business sense to spend shareholders' and investors' money this way? Or to allow this instability to drag on? The solution lies with Willie Walsh. He must waste no further time or resources but instead work with us to settle this strike."
ENDS
There was a different atmosphere this time around, we all felt it, not as frenetic and intense as our last time, more determined and a quiet resolve
The numbers of crew striking or reporting, for better or for worse, are what they are and nothing will change that, so we intend to leave that area alone
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What have they achieved? They have made it clear that whatever the outcome, that there will be a huge industrial relations problem going forward
I think that future industrial relations may depend on whether any of the militants from BASSA still work for BA.