British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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CurlyWurly
You make some valid points about some of the methods of protest. It served no purpose other than to galvanise public opinion against the action. A massive own goal in my opinion.
I fully understand that ST is removable; it was in my day. But industrial action is not a disciplinary offence, as I understand it. Should you have ST removed if your manager does not like you?
I fully understand that ST is removable; it was in my day. But industrial action is not a disciplinary offence, as I understand it. Should you have ST removed if your manager does not like you?
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The base closure rules aren't open ended and as all out stations have been closed over 12 months that is likely to have ended anyway..and it's not up to any company to ensure you have the means to get to work..this is just another example of life in the real world!!!... if you take a job far from home - it's up to you to get there! When I first joined BA we didn't get concessions for the first 6 montsh so I had to pay for the shuttle - end of - I chose a London job but lived in the north.
People who have lost jobs recently now face a longer commute or relocation..bleating over loss of ST isn't going to endear the striking crews to the general public (who are future passengers) - life is about choices..if you choose to strike, you will lose you ST, if you choose to live away from base then you have to work out how to get to work..and if you choose not to travel BA in the future...well, (apparently)we never forget you have a choice!
These arguments simply don't fly in the current markets - BA are losing millions daily and we all face the very real threat of bankruptcy, loss of houses and so on..it's a real threat - BA might not survive..and for what? So the CSD can spend the flight playing with the IFE instead of cabin service, so that overseas crews can still use ST for their commute, so that UNITE can add another wing to their headquarters?
Bloody hell - the lunatics are finally running the asylum!
People who have lost jobs recently now face a longer commute or relocation..bleating over loss of ST isn't going to endear the striking crews to the general public (who are future passengers) - life is about choices..if you choose to strike, you will lose you ST, if you choose to live away from base then you have to work out how to get to work..and if you choose not to travel BA in the future...well, (apparently)we never forget you have a choice!
These arguments simply don't fly in the current markets - BA are losing millions daily and we all face the very real threat of bankruptcy, loss of houses and so on..it's a real threat - BA might not survive..and for what? So the CSD can spend the flight playing with the IFE instead of cabin service, so that overseas crews can still use ST for their commute, so that UNITE can add another wing to their headquarters?
Bloody hell - the lunatics are finally running the asylum!
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It could be, if at any time ST and commuting were used to make the blow less painful, when your base closed.
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Staff Travel
I see the loss of staff travel as follows:
The teacher says "Any more talking and you will stay behind after class". The kids carry on. Then there are tears when they have to stay behind. "We did not think you meant it". Then their parents come to the school to threaten the teachers.
Then they grow up but as they are unqualified manual workers they join BA as cabin staff.
Willie says "If you strike, you will lose your perks".
"We didn't think you meant it........................."
No matter what we say to these brainiacs (doctors, lawyers, accountants, my arse) they will never get it. It will never sink in.
I haven't heard a word about imposition from the BASSAites. Isn't that what the strike was supposed to be all about? Why didn't BA's court injunction say that the plot has been lost? Then, perhaps, the strikes could have been illegal and the sacking could begin.
I'm VCC and will be proudly working with those who want their company to continue to exist.
The teacher says "Any more talking and you will stay behind after class". The kids carry on. Then there are tears when they have to stay behind. "We did not think you meant it". Then their parents come to the school to threaten the teachers.
Then they grow up but as they are unqualified manual workers they join BA as cabin staff.
Willie says "If you strike, you will lose your perks".
"We didn't think you meant it........................."
No matter what we say to these brainiacs (doctors, lawyers, accountants, my arse) they will never get it. It will never sink in.
I haven't heard a word about imposition from the BASSAites. Isn't that what the strike was supposed to be all about? Why didn't BA's court injunction say that the plot has been lost? Then, perhaps, the strikes could have been illegal and the sacking could begin.
I'm VCC and will be proudly working with those who want their company to continue to exist.
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Litebulbs
It could be, if at any time ST and commuting were used to make the blow less painful, when your base closed.
Tbh..I think Unite are mostly talking about the foreign nationals who joined BA and use ST to commute - the base closure rules have a life and it's usually 12 -18 months - the discounted commuter tickets aren't forever and not contractual.
Tbh..I think Unite are mostly talking about the foreign nationals who joined BA and use ST to commute - the base closure rules have a life and it's usually 12 -18 months - the discounted commuter tickets aren't forever and not contractual.
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CurlyWurly
It doesn't matter about the discount, it could be an implied term. I am not saying it is, but I would definitely go down the grievance procedure if it was me (which it isn't, by the way).
mjc507 - you make an analogy and I am sure an employment tribunal would test the reasonableness of the situation. As I said before, if it was me, I would try to test it.
mjc507 - you make an analogy and I am sure an employment tribunal would test the reasonableness of the situation. As I said before, if it was me, I would try to test it.
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Decided not to bother replying anymore...
Some people simply refuse to see the plain facts.
BA is losing millions every day. When there is no money left the airline will be bankrupt and no one will have a job (or concessions.)
(and in case you haven't noticed umemployment is high in UK and Europe so good luck getting another job)
Nuff said
Some people simply refuse to see the plain facts.
BA is losing millions every day. When there is no money left the airline will be bankrupt and no one will have a job (or concessions.)
(and in case you haven't noticed umemployment is high in UK and Europe so good luck getting another job)
Nuff said
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AS you say "MJC507" not too long now before the SACKINGS could begin
12 JUNE! is the date that should be clearly marked in the strickers diaries
If you are not back in the system on a rostered duty by then "WATCH OUT" ya mandate has ended and ya on ya own!!!!!
12 JUNE! is the date that should be clearly marked in the strickers diaries
If you are not back in the system on a rostered duty by then "WATCH OUT" ya mandate has ended and ya on ya own!!!!!
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Why is that? I have agreed more with you, than you have with me. We are only having a chat. I do not work for BA, I am just interested, but glad that I am not involved in the dispute.
I could be a bit above myself however and think that you not replying is anything to do with me. If this is the case, I apologise.
I could be a bit above myself however and think that you not replying is anything to do with me. If this is the case, I apologise.
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Originally Posted by mjc507
Then they grow up but as they are unqualified manual workers they join BA as cabin staff....
...No matter what we say to these brainiacs (doctors, lawyers, accountants, my arse) they will never get it. It will never sink in.
...No matter what we say to these brainiacs (doctors, lawyers, accountants, my arse) they will never get it. It will never sink in.
Originally Posted by vertigowerty
but there are free coffee and muffins
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@ Litebulbs
not at all...think you have been one of the more reasonable voices on here...
Background..
Joined BA in 1977 and am coming to end of my career - have loved my time as crew - and now my future (pension/job/concessions/plans) are in jeopardy because a few hotheads are determined to chase BA into bankruptcy. I've been in the crew room when new (>3 years) have said they don't care of BA goes bust..
We were once the national carrier and had national pride - remember how you felt when you watched ads like this one..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAcBsSzjiUo
now we are regarded as a national joke and all the years of amzing service and safety records seem to have been forgotten in a ridiculous fight over ..what? The originals principals seem forgotten and it's become some macho tussle that no one can win without losing face now. I blame WW and Unite (although not equally) - we have lost all public faith and I'm not sure the travelling public will ever choose to fly the flag unless there is no option - they'll always choose another more relaible alternative - even if scedules are restored, what will the crews be like? - surly, angry, will the VCC/Strikers ever be able to work together or will we be another Ansett?
How can intelligent, professional people do this? We have to move with the times and it was obvious to everyone that the gravy train was coming to a stop..
It's a worldwide crisis - adjustments have to be made..before it's too late.
So I'll be going to work on Wednesday and wait and see what happens next..
Background..
Joined BA in 1977 and am coming to end of my career - have loved my time as crew - and now my future (pension/job/concessions/plans) are in jeopardy because a few hotheads are determined to chase BA into bankruptcy. I've been in the crew room when new (>3 years) have said they don't care of BA goes bust..
We were once the national carrier and had national pride - remember how you felt when you watched ads like this one..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAcBsSzjiUo
now we are regarded as a national joke and all the years of amzing service and safety records seem to have been forgotten in a ridiculous fight over ..what? The originals principals seem forgotten and it's become some macho tussle that no one can win without losing face now. I blame WW and Unite (although not equally) - we have lost all public faith and I'm not sure the travelling public will ever choose to fly the flag unless there is no option - they'll always choose another more relaible alternative - even if scedules are restored, what will the crews be like? - surly, angry, will the VCC/Strikers ever be able to work together or will we be another Ansett?
How can intelligent, professional people do this? We have to move with the times and it was obvious to everyone that the gravy train was coming to a stop..
It's a worldwide crisis - adjustments have to be made..before it's too late.
So I'll be going to work on Wednesday and wait and see what happens next..
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Jetset Lady
"Was the above really neccessary?"
Yes, jetset lady, it was necessary. Why? Because too many of those in the BASSA brigade believe their station is higher than it really is. The constant comparison to pilots is like a receptionist in a doctor's surgery comparing themselves to the doctor.
By the way, the excellent safety record of our company is down to the pilots and ground crew a lot more than to the CC. Harsh, but true. The sooner we have new blood in the cabin the better for all of us. Although I don't really wish to "tarnish all CC with the same brush", how can we differentiate in the future (if there is a future for BA) who it was who tried to sabatoge this company and all of us who had to work through the ranks to get where we are? And will they try it again in future?
BASSA and their followers have brought the harsh words of others on themselves. Roll on 12 June!
Yes, jetset lady, it was necessary. Why? Because too many of those in the BASSA brigade believe their station is higher than it really is. The constant comparison to pilots is like a receptionist in a doctor's surgery comparing themselves to the doctor.
By the way, the excellent safety record of our company is down to the pilots and ground crew a lot more than to the CC. Harsh, but true. The sooner we have new blood in the cabin the better for all of us. Although I don't really wish to "tarnish all CC with the same brush", how can we differentiate in the future (if there is a future for BA) who it was who tried to sabatoge this company and all of us who had to work through the ranks to get where we are? And will they try it again in future?
BASSA and their followers have brought the harsh words of others on themselves. Roll on 12 June!
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Come on mjc507, you really are being unneccessarily offensive. Many of us cabin crew on here are, and have been throughout, totally against the strikes.
I am not an "unqualifed manual worker" and I'm frequently surprised at my colleagues' past lives.
As regards performance in safety incidents, we're all a team, pilots, engineers, cabin crew etc. We have all contributed to BA's good reputation for safety. Why offend those of us on here from the CC community on this issue?
I am not an "unqualifed manual worker" and I'm frequently surprised at my colleagues' past lives.
As regards performance in safety incidents, we're all a team, pilots, engineers, cabin crew etc. We have all contributed to BA's good reputation for safety. Why offend those of us on here from the CC community on this issue?
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what do they want??
Unite has repeatedly moved the goalposts and is not interested in settling the dispute. The union knows our latest offer addresses all the concerns it has raised during 15 months of negotiations and that we have compromised many times in an effort to get a resolution.
Tony Woodley himself has said that our final offer “on many points represents an improvement”.
During these talks, we have:
* offered the partial reversal of crew complements, despite a High Court ruling in our favour
* agreed to future promotions and transfers on current contracts for current crew
* given a written assurance about the allocation of routes and aircraft between fleets
* given assurances to protect the pay, terms and conditions for our current crew
* changed our position on pay to guarantee RPI rises for two years, on top of increments
* agreed to the return of staff travel to crew who went on strike, subject to certain conditions
Tony Woodley himself has said that our final offer “on many points represents an improvement”.
During these talks, we have:
* offered the partial reversal of crew complements, despite a High Court ruling in our favour
* agreed to future promotions and transfers on current contracts for current crew
* given a written assurance about the allocation of routes and aircraft between fleets
* given assurances to protect the pay, terms and conditions for our current crew
* changed our position on pay to guarantee RPI rises for two years, on top of increments
* agreed to the return of staff travel to crew who went on strike, subject to certain conditions
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Then they grow up but as they are unqualified manual workers they join BA as cabin staff.
I personally am against the strike but no matter how angry you may be, please don't imply there are no skills required to be cabin crew.
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06:45 BA724 GENEVA AIRBORNE 0647 Terminal five
06:50 BA812 COPENHAGEN AIRBORNE 0701 Terminal five
06:50 CX7191 COPENHAGEN AIRBORNE 0701 Terminal five
07:10 BA552 ROME AIRBORNE 0728 Terminal five
07:10 BA678 ISTANBUL AIRBORNE 0732 Terminal five
07:10 BA710 ZURICH AIRBORNE 0721 Terminal five
07:10 CX7215 ZURICH AIRBORNE 0721 Terminal five
07:20 BA936 DUSSELDORF TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:20 BA990 BERLIN AIRBORNE 0735 Terminal five
07:20 CX7141 DUSSELDORF TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:20 CX7181 BERLIN AIRBORNE 0735 Terminal five
07:20 QF3451 DUSSELDORF TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:20 QF3619 BERLIN AIRBORNE 0735 Terminal five
07:25 BA304 PARIS CDG TAXIED 0729 Terminal five
07:25 QF3415 PARIS CDG TAXIED 0729 Terminal five
07:40 BA564 MILAN-LINATE TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:45 BA342 NICE GATE CLOSED Terminal five
07:45 CX7231 NICE GATE CLOSED Terminal five
07:45 QF3573 NICE GATE CLOSED Terminal five
07:50 BA948 MUNICH GATE OPEN Terminal five
07:50 CX7161 MUNICH GATE OPEN Terminal five
07:50 QF3557 MUNICH GATE OPEN Terminal five
07:55 BA854 PRAGUE LAST CALL Terminal five
07:55 CX7121 PRAGUE LAST CALL Terminal five
This is info from Heathrow Airport website for BA departures scheduled to leave before now.
Seems everything's working.
06:50 BA812 COPENHAGEN AIRBORNE 0701 Terminal five
06:50 CX7191 COPENHAGEN AIRBORNE 0701 Terminal five
07:10 BA552 ROME AIRBORNE 0728 Terminal five
07:10 BA678 ISTANBUL AIRBORNE 0732 Terminal five
07:10 BA710 ZURICH AIRBORNE 0721 Terminal five
07:10 CX7215 ZURICH AIRBORNE 0721 Terminal five
07:20 BA936 DUSSELDORF TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:20 BA990 BERLIN AIRBORNE 0735 Terminal five
07:20 CX7141 DUSSELDORF TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:20 CX7181 BERLIN AIRBORNE 0735 Terminal five
07:20 QF3451 DUSSELDORF TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:20 QF3619 BERLIN AIRBORNE 0735 Terminal five
07:25 BA304 PARIS CDG TAXIED 0729 Terminal five
07:25 QF3415 PARIS CDG TAXIED 0729 Terminal five
07:40 BA564 MILAN-LINATE TAXIED 0743 Terminal five
07:45 BA342 NICE GATE CLOSED Terminal five
07:45 CX7231 NICE GATE CLOSED Terminal five
07:45 QF3573 NICE GATE CLOSED Terminal five
07:50 BA948 MUNICH GATE OPEN Terminal five
07:50 CX7161 MUNICH GATE OPEN Terminal five
07:50 QF3557 MUNICH GATE OPEN Terminal five
07:55 BA854 PRAGUE LAST CALL Terminal five
07:55 CX7121 PRAGUE LAST CALL Terminal five
This is info from Heathrow Airport website for BA departures scheduled to leave before now.
Seems everything's working.
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mjc507 wrote:
All this because the company wanted to remove ONE person from some of our flights! Has all this been worth it?
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Sadly there will be quite a few flights operating empty more so than last week when there was no strike and the second services to BOS/MIA/LAX/SFO to mention a few operated there and back fully crewed and with no passengers on board, Unite should be sued for damages.