Although not Cabin Crew, i do work for BA, and it is getting really bad where i work.
BA managers are not visible through-out most of the shift. Those at the bottom, who deliver the operation are just left to get on with coping under a snowballing work-load. Operations is known as the poor relation of other corporate parts of the airline. Not as glamorous and essential to BA as marketing, or sales, or finance departments.
Senior managers have never paid us a visit to see how we work, or experience the struggle we go through each day to try and deliver the operation. Instead they have their heads buried in the sand, sat in their calm offices, devising their next delusional plan, or issuing edicts about uniform standards, while they have afforded themselves the luxury of not having to wear a tie at work. Let those at the bottom wear the ties!
As the day progresses, the operation starts resembling bedlam, as people make mistakes, and colleagues start losing their temper and their sanity. People are employed of different grades and rates of pay, but employed to do the same work. The lowest paid are expected to work harder and be more flexible than those on more money. Go figure? Still others on old contracts/grades/higher pay, just sit around doing nothing, except watch their colleagues struggle to keep their heads above water. The staff that do care run around like headless chickens trying to deliver the unreasonable/impossible. Things miss their booked flight because we do not have the resources and time to deliver the kind of operation; those that take pride in their work, would like to give our customers.
Most, if not all, of BA�s outstations are handled by third parties/handling companies who couldn�t care less if they are meeting their contractually agreed service levels. Outstation failures just get passed to Heathrow/Gatwick to sort out.
Everything I learnt at school, college, and university about quality being important, getting things right first time, having a plan that closely matches what can be delivered; none of these things apply here.
No-one gets recognition for good work, whilst poor time keeping and operational mistakes are quickly brought to your attention and a reprimand swiftly issued.
Plenty of people care, but apparently none among those that take decisions, since none of them has the time, courage, or even inclination to see at first-hand how bad things are on the front-line.
Most people here are just plane fed-up, at how this great company with a future, is being flushed down the toilet by that aged old disease known as the British style of management. Lions led by donkeys springs to mind, without detracting anything from the much greater level of sacrifice being made by our servicemen and women.
You wanted to know how to solve BA�s problems part II? Please come spend an unannounced day with us in the operation. See for yourself how unorganised it really is, and how it resembles working for a bunch of amateurs; not the professional, blue-chip company that BA likes to portray itself as.
Where i work things are regressing not progressing.
Talk about running a viable business into the ground.
Location: North of Watford, south of Musselburgh !
Age: 44
Posts: 558
You strike, you lose.
This is 2009, not 1989.
The management have you all by the short and curlies. The unions have had their day and the judgement should spell that out to you.
By all means, waste your time at the next shindig at the races, but you will gain nowt.
Step into line with every other UK carrier, or lose face.
Your choice.
LB
how this great company with a future, is being flushed down the toilet by that aged old disease
BA is indeed being flushed down the toilet by a disease!
What that disease is, is purely a matter of opinion.
Some may say that certain departments are the last bastion of restrictive Trade Union practices!
Which is indeed an age old disease!
For example a long haul disruption 'agreement' that mandates a diverted cabin crew to enjoy TWO full nights off before continuing to base!. Even though 12 hours would be the legal minimum! The union recently INSISTED there be NO alleviation. I'm sure your customers, for whom you claim to care, were well impressed!
How can this possibly be defended?
Anybody voting 'yes' in this ballot MUST be absolutely certain that they are prepared to be the very first in line to be sacked, because an overall yes vote WILL Lead to industrial Action. BA have their backs to the wall. They will not survive without change! A simple ballot result will NOT be sufficient to make BA 'think again'!
A yes vote, followed by a collapse of resolve on day one of IA would do FAR more damage to BASSA than people simply being honest and voting NO!
A mass 'sick out' would be an even worse result, and would leave those individuals guilty of the new charge of pattern sickness, and TOTALLY outside of any protection in law.
Each and every one of the BASSA members have a very important personal decision to make. Are you prepared to lose everything? Because for some of you, that is undoubtedly what a yes result will achieve.
I think everyone is still waiting for Watersidewonker's argument as to why BASSA are winning this 'fight', using fact and rational.... I think we are in for a long wait.
320+ seat, 2 Class A/C operating out of the U.K on 10+ hour sectors with 2 pilots and 10 CC. No bunks, no rest areas. Pilots stay in the seats, CC hope to get 20 minutes rest on a bar box. This company has been operating for over 40 years in the U.K and has made a profit every year it has existed. This year maybe not? Aircrew notice out in last couple of weeks saying we have to operate 1 CC down on certain sectors. Sharp intake of breath, some mutterings, then OK lets try and give the passengers the service we can. I think a reality check needs to be undertaken by a few dreamers in BA who also appear to be agitators. I suspect and hope that the silent majority will see the light and commonsense will prevail. Nobody should ever want to see fellow crew out of a job unless they are incredibly self-centered and vindictive people. To wish your own colleagues out of their jobs is totally beyond belief.
I have been a long term reader of this site. I have not bothered registering in the past because I did not think I had same qualification to post on here compared to some others. I can't read this thread without speaking anymore though.
Can someone please clarify for me the following.
Unite have said the strikes are a seperate issue and the court case has not effected the ballot. Are Unite saying that they will ballot their members on seperate issues to that of contractual terms (eg pay freezes and stopovers etc) or are they saying they can still ballot about their contractual concerns?
Either way they are on to a loser but I want to clarify this before I put my points across.
4468
You only partly understand "scheme" rules. Under LAW, the rest must be 'one hour less than the duty period'
Therefore on a long range flight with a duty day of say 16h30m...the minimum rest must be 15h30m. NOT 12hrs.
(this can be reduced by 1hr via Captains Discretion in suitable accomodation) there are other restrictions in scheme.
-Some of which dictate that rest may continue even longer to achieve a local night.....(and these apply equally to flight crew as well as cabin crew)
And then there are the Industrial agreements...agreed with BA...are you going to blame the crew for what the company agreed to?
2whites 2reds
If your friends working in Tescos with CPL/IR etc and others in a similar position, offer to join a "BA New Pilot Fleet" on a much lower pay stucture, lower hourly rate, less days off, higher CAP, will you think thats a great idea to save BA money...esp if they get all the 'money' trips moved to their bid package?
There are two sides to any story, and luckily non of the issuse will be decided on this forum, we all have our own opinions/views/etc
Crewing levels do differ at LGW, but im many cases so does the product delivered. (Deli bags vs Hot meals in europe)
Most crew dont want a strike, most fear that the reductions in service our customers recieve, will not make them stay loyal, that reducing crew levels reduces the safety margin, that new fleet -with a 2 year turnover- (a McJob) will not build loyalty of staff, that they will not have a vested interest in the long term customer loyalty. They wont go the extra mile that the current crew do now.
Will Mr.W still be around then to clean up the mess ?
"Howard Wheeldon of BGC said the market had also been heartened by the failure late on Thursday of the Unite union's attempt to get a court injunction to block BA's plans to change cabin crew work schedules from November 16.
"It's a relief that the court appears to have signalled they can implement the measures," he said."
Add to this that job losses will reach 4,900 by March. Those of you that vote for a strike (assuming you aren't expecting others to do the dirty work for you) will probably find yourselves in that number, so go ahead.
Will be interesting to see who has the courage to vote for a strike, and the cojones to actually carry it out. It's quite obvious who'll be in the former and not the latter.
Quite - I have flown around Europe with BA several times in the last few years and have received a hot meal twice. Once in Club (from Gatwick) and once on the Manchester Breakfast shuttle (from Gatwick). Have sat in Euro Traveller many time from LHR and not received a hot meal so please don't tell me it's the norm.
Reduced Crewing and Product - already in place at LGW
and they have less days off, fixed links, standard short turnarounds, mixed flying, no restrictive disruption agreement, usually minimum rest.
Add to this a whole host of other efficiency changes made by the crew at LGW and yes you will understand by incredulity that BASSA are calling a strike ballot over asking the CSD to work, increasing a highly inefficient Short haul fleets productivity and considering another new contract (which has never seemed to bother BASSA before), and yet importantly not touching your pay.
It beggars belief and makes me hugely angry as I know plenty of people back at BA who work hard, are lovely people and are now facing uncertainty surrounding their job security due to the actions of a few loonies who are adept at, if nothing else, drumming up support through lies and spin.
Last edited by Matt101 : 7th November 2009 at 12:11.
Ummmmm was that a joke? Or are you seriously asking me whether the guys and girls stacking shelves to make ends meet would turn down a very good flying job with BA on reduced T's and C's to help ensure the companies survival?
Persoanlly....bloody right I would! The other option is to go and give Michael O'Leary £30k upfront for a type rating and then get put on Brookfield's Temp Contract with no gurantee of consistent work and hence pay let alone crew meals, cups of tea, uniform, medicals, training or anything else you need to do the job.
I'm guessing you're not a pilot or if you are you are imensely out of touch with the real world. If you're cabin crew then I'll offer right now to pay the £99 for you to go and apply for the Ryanair Cabin Crew scheme where you then pay for your own training, uniform, meals bla bla bla same as the pilots.
HiFlyer14 said - "LGW....... I totally agree with you about the need for negotation - but as Midman pointed out, why oh why haven't they negotiated so far? Walking out of slideshows, refusing to be in the same room as Amicus reps, turning up late, come on.....you seem like a reasonable person...you must see that they have brought this upon us unnecessarily?"
Whether you agree or disagree with how BASSA has handled the dispute the fact is that the company are changing your contract without your consent.You obviously strongly disagree with how BASSA has handled it,and thats your choice and you're entitled to it.We live in a democracy after all.
But you shouldn't vote in the ballot on how you think BASSA has handled the situation,but how the company is imposing changes to our contract.I don't agree 100% with BASAA on some issues,but I do know if we don't take a stand now,we (BA cabin crew) will be leaving to door open for the company to impose whatever they want,when ever they want.And if they get away with it at IFCE then they start doing the same with in other departments in BA.
Forget about how the situation has been handled.Thats in the past.But what is clear is that BA want to make changes to my contract without me having any say in it.And they want to do the same to you,and the rest of IFCE as well !! We cannot let this happen.This is were we have to make our stand ! I can't emphasise this enough.
This is why I'll be using my right to protest at this imposition and voting for industrial action in the ballot ! And I say that with a heavy heart !
LGW - wrap '[quote]' round the words you wish to quote..
Also, BA can oppose whatever changes they want, at any time, that is why you have a union that speaks on behalf of all it's members. but the fact is BASSA wouldn't negotiate with BA so left them no other option.
Don't forget that BA have to reduce costs in this recession so BASSA have to do their bit too!
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