sunnysmith

Hmmm, from what I have been reading MOST analysts (as opposed to ) agree that this recession will be W shaped. They think we are nearing the bottom of the first trough, however after a brief period of stability (very little recovery as I understand!) the second trough will be more severe and sustained.

I suggest that Bassa (or their members if bassa is not prepared to do it) stop reading the tabloids and move on to better quality publications

SS

PC767

On this issue of pay between pilots and cabin crew.

I understand that there are some cabin crew who do receive better pay than some pilots.

However, the situation is that a senior very senior cabin crew member may be paid more than a very junior first officer. A senior cabin crew member towards the end of their service on their top increment versus a junior first officer, starting their career and with a far higher future earning potential than any cabin crew will and would ever have.

screwdriver

Forgive me for butting in. I'm not CC but I am a BA employee of 35 years. Of course not being CC doesn't seem to stop anyone else from piling in with their views on the subject..so here goes. How I see things...

The comany is screwed. It wasn't BASSA's fault but, none the less, that is where it finds itself.

I can't blame your union for trying to protect your T&Cs but , come on, this is way overdue.

I have never in my 35 years felt as insecure as I do now and that has nothing to do with the 'company ' or WW's approach . The world has changed!

My department have been engaging in the BRS to try and lower our costs to preserve jobs.

I can't see how the CC can use any comparison with the pilots just because they 'work' in the same 'space'. Why the constant comparison?. They should be compared with other staff groups within the airline.

From what I know it would appear that the pilots used a mature approach to their negotiations with the company. This approach is sadly lacking with BASSA!

Senior CC have long enjoyed a 'ringfencing' of their terms and conditions. Way above the market rate. T & Cs that every other dept in BA has seen adjusted over the last number of years.

Some BA groundstaff are working their t£ts off at present due to staff reductions.

I would expect BASSA (busted flush) to be sidelined as BA talk to Unite national officials with ACAS present.

But then again, what do I know, I'm just one of the 27000 staff who aren't CC/FD.

Could have gone on but I'm up for work in the morning and the wine bottle's empty!! (Non crew purchase)

oki

Hospital porters and consultants work in the same building. They are not paid the same.

wobble2plank

The never ending Pilots verses CC pay thread!

Wrong place for it. BASSA will ALWAYS play the comparison as it takes the heat off of their innate ability to mess up negotiations by whinging that CC deserve exactly what the Pilots get.

There are threads all over the internet covering it.

More to the point isn't today 'The big one' at Kempton Park.

It will be amazing to see, what with Henley, Wimbledon and Gay Pride, how many the 'amazing' turnout will be and, of course, they will vote for no confidence in WW and the threat of IA to get their 'alternate cost savings' through.

wobble2plank

Having just read through BASSA's latest war info memo it seems to be a little thin on the ground where 'facts' are concerned.

A few of the AOC holders who have already been bitten by the downturn might disagree that WW is the devil incarnate in this one and that BA is 'merely' talking down the industry:

Many are smaller carriers however many aren't and I would be fairly certain that the employers and employees are certainly feeling the pain of Willy Walshs' made up down turn at the moment.

Erm, every other analyst? There seems to be discord amongst the city analysts as to whether we are in a 'U' recession where we bump along the bottom for a bit before climbing out of the other side, a 'W' recession (seems to be the favourite at the moment) where we see a small pick up but then worsens before bettering. Or, the worst scenario as Japan has seen for the last 10 years, an 'L' recession where confidence and stock market levels never recover or recover of an extremely protracted period.

See the list above. Companies that fail to innovate, stagnate and die. The 'rejig' of the route structures and the implementation of new routes and the culling of non profitable routes is exactly what the company has to and must do. The 'overall' restructure will result in a capacity cut. Pure and simple. All the company is doing is moving profitable capacity towards profitable routes. Add to that the fuel usage, capacity and cost per passenger mile of different aircraft types and you can assess correctly the company plan. If they weren't innovating then I would be worried. For example Virgin doesn't have the luxury of a large network and, after his PR stunt of a profit was unearthed as the scam it was, VA are hurting big time.

OK lets pull the world of the international airline down to the level of the Sun reading masses shall we? Surely the BASSA membership deserve a far better analogy than that? Especially as the one above makes no sense whatsoever. Ironically the players, groundsmen, team coach or the tea ladies would have no wages or job of the fans don't have the money to come through the gate or buy the tickets no matter how good the team.


BASSA, give your membership HARD facts not made up innuendo, don't treat them as the drones you have been treating them for the past 20 years. They, the membership, deserve better.

teddybear44

Screwdriver,

Nice one

Nutjob

I'm not prepared to post the facts on the BASSA forum because I believe it will just end up in a witch hunt. I've made my thoughts clear on the aggressive posts of many crew there.

HOWEVER..........if any other CC do read PPRuNe, then you might like to hear a qualification on the thread re "If you strike you can be sacked". There are many saying that if it's a legal strike you can't be sacked.

Truth: If it's a LEGAL strike you can't LEGALLY be sacked. So you could still be dismissed and you would have to claim for unfair dismissal. The maximum payout would then be £77,600 and you're not guaranteed to get you job back. Disclaw Publishing - Employment Law, unfair dismissal, redundancy pay

Once again, that's why I'll cross that picket line. I agree with the need to become more efficient, I'm hacked off with BASSA and I certainly am not risking my job. Rather a lower paid job than no job.

Ta ta for now.

MrBunker

My heart is in my mouth at the frightening prospect of another video clip of cheering whooping crew calling for a strike in the next few hours. I feel so bad for those that don't wish to be led in such a manner by their reps.

Tiger

Henley is over and Gay Pride is only a day..

wobble2plank

T'was tongue in cheek, as we seemed to have a shortage of CC over those days I was wondering why BASSA chose the 6th.

TorC

I can only hope that enough "moderates" will attend the bassa meet to sway the vote away from a ballot for IA. (Well, we can all have our dreams can't we?).

The damage that will be done if today does result in a ballot for IA is the very last thing we need just now. Bassa says that WW has caused forward bookings to drop, but what will be their stance when the blame for that is laid at their doorstep?

Amicus (CC89) have a meeting tomorrow btw.

wobble2plank

Unfortunately I believe that the BASSA spin machine, accompanied by the press, will whip up a vote of no confidence in Willie Walsh and also a vote for IA due to the forthcoming imposition of contractual changes.

Even more unfortunate is that I firmly believe that Willie and the company are not only fully prepared for such an eventuality but expect it and have robust contingency plans in place for anyone who goes along with the IA, legal or not.

I know many will scream tribunal if the P45 comes through the door but BA will carry that along for many a year and I am not sure that many of our more moderate and hard working crew would be able to cope with BA's delaying tactics.

Look at how many times they have dragged the holiday pay claim through the appeal courts!

TorC

wobble2plank

Yes, I fear that you are totally correct.

Even I can't believe that bassa are so naive to think the co. isn't prepared, or that they (bassa) are prepared to play a game of such brinkmanship in this situation.

Sadly, it seems most are following the simple "it's illegal" line with regards to termination. We know that the co. have already issued preliminary paperwork (an HR1 to the DWP, IIRC without checking?) but bassa have done nothing that I am aware of (as a now ex-member) to explain the implications of this. SOSR has drawn blank stares whenever I have tried to explain my very limited knowledge of it.

nuigini

There are some 2000 people at today's meeting.

Re-Heat

Anyone live-blogging the event?

wobble2plank

Really? How bizarre? Bet that will stick in BASSA's craw!

fred737

How are the commuters going to cope when BA withdraws Staff Travel for anybody who does not turn up for work as a punishment after a strike.

nuigini

They are also saying that there is no respect for crew and that BALPA has been given a sweet deal while cabin crew are bringing the losses.

wobble2plank

It's not really the companies problem where employees live or how they get to work. That is more their problem. The company 'recommends' they live within a couple of hours of their base however the choice is up to them.

Could make it interesting for the chairperson ( ) of BASSA getting to work, or even the occasional meeting.