i was wondering what u guys thought about crew safety briefings, the company that i work for...and leaving!!! hardly ever do them, so it is strange when they happen. i dont agree with his because it means all that info we have to know, doesnt stay put...and i'm forever going though my manual!! i wondered if there should maybe become a CAA standard briefing for each type of aircraft...(or perhaps there is one that my company dont know about!!!)
hi Sky Angel It is to my knowledge that it is a regulation that flight briefings must be done before every flight. In our company we have on the spot inspectors (not from the company) who walk in briefings while they are being done to make sure everything is outlined e.g. Sep/First aid. There are dire consequences if this is not forfilled and our licences revoked and a resit of SEP if everything is not up to scratch. I dont know what company you work for but I would be glad to leave as it sounds pretty dodgy to me..
A safety briefing should ALWAYS be carried out before a flight. Its a legal requirement.
A briefing can be a discussion or/and questions but I feel that a discussion regarding a safety issue is more benefical, as questioning can be repeditive, leading, or in the worst case like standing infront of a fireing squad.
I think 2 SEP and a First Aid question is about right, but if you have a discussion on a subject, say a decompression, you will cover, drop down O2, portable O2 bottles, what you would do, what you see, hear, feel, plus first aid treatment, which could cover not only hypoxia, but cuts bruises, shock etc...
However a briefing should be a briefing not a interogation.
If you have a standard brief per aircraft crew over a period of time learn the standard answer, and as we know all emergencies are different. The information we are given in manuals and so forth are a guide which at times may need to be adapted on "the day".
As for the service brief it just as important as this informs the crew how you like the service done (so no bad feeling and there is no come back if the service is not done to the No1 liking) tells the crew of any disabled paxs, any special meals etc... It gives the playing field rules as such for that day. Also the crew feel lead, rather than just vague guessing games.
Hey euroboy Man you covered it to a T. I totally agree with what you have said especially the fact that a briefing should be a discussion and not an interrogation. I have to give briefings nearly every second day and I find I get more response from the crew when it is a discussion and not a firing line. Yet I also remember when I was a lower grade how tedious and nerve wraking briefings could be. The problem these days i find is the amount of different aircrafts we are type rated on and the many different amounts of equipment there are on an a/craft (e.g. boeing/airbus). To that effect briefings are beneficial and spark up our memory on things that have slipped our mind. Like you said, its a playing field out there and you have got to be ready for the game!! I would definately feel safe on your flight.
Stay Safe!!and happy flying
Congrats on leaving Sky Angel.. Where are you going?? To another airline?
[This message has been edited by comeflywithme (edited 31 January 2001).]
I agree that a safety briefing should always be carried out, but it should always be done constructively. On one of my first flights my purser was notorious for her briefings, and most crew reported terrifed, which did not help them give the answers to her obscure questions, and she seemed to take some pleasure if someone got something wrong. I think that we can only gain from a briefing that is carried out as a group discussion. After all the vast majority of us know the answers to the questions we could be asked and if anyone gets a bit rusty or gets a blank then someone else might be able to jog their memory without anyone getting embarrassed in front of the rest of the crew.
I don't know what country you live in, but in the USA, if I give a briefing on the DC-9 other than "code 2-4 turbulence, no weather, 1:20 enroute", and "let us know about whatever you need, ok", they look at us like we are still brand new Captains, or that we just like to give long, unnecessary briefings (at this base, they fly the plane every day, or almost)-they often get a glazed look in their eyes after about 45 seconds, and we are wasting our time.
When I was FO on the B-757 (DTW), the Captain briefed the FAs for a few minutes: this was like working for a different airline. As FO, I often never even saw the crew in the aft galley, whether due to workload or the old corporate culture (very cold and unfriendly) until almost the end of the flight. The cool relations in general between the FAs and pilots here has been perpetuated for many years by a very resentful attitude in Inflight Training given to new FAs (is it a Minnesota thing?). The Minneapolis crewbase flight attendants have a very feminist group within its ranks which doesn't recommend bringing coffee to the cockpit each hour (if at all). They train many of them to be biased against us. One brand-new pilot in MSP walked into a large room full of ladies in uniform and he felt like it was a feminist meeting, from the rude stares that he received. Most of our 6,000-member pilot group is very aware of it, and I strongly suspect that many flight attendants in MSP would receive more help from the pilots if all the FAs based there would realize that we all work for the same airline. There still exists a lot of distance and distrust between the groups: pilots based up north often don't want to invite the FAs to go out for a beer-at several cities the cabin crew leaves after one leg and we never get a bit familiar anyway. Hope I didn't hurt any feelings by describing mostly other pilots' observations over the last 15 years.
But many FAs there are very good, as at the other bases-I'm not questioning all of them. Some pilots here are pompous, others have almost new personality, and might use the wrong approach with them. This could be a factor in certain situational misunderstandings.
I once flew from DTW to western Nevada and nobody had even bothered to offer to cook our breakfasts (after a 5:00 AM wake-up). Maybe we were supposed to come to the galley and do our own?
I have little incentive to give a long briefing which seems to imply that the crew doesn't know its job-they would think that we're just being "too big for our britches".
Ask other NWA pilots-these are just my observations from being here 15 years, and up at a northern base for just over 3 years until not long ago. If any NWA FAs can explain why these are very common pilot perceptions here, please do so.
[This message has been edited by Ignition Override (edited 01 February 2001).]
Good thread! Comeflywithme, at our mob we are provided with laminated A4 sized Flight Safety Quick Reference Cards for each type of ac we fly. It's mandatory to take along theses cards on each flight. When in the briefing room, about the first thing we do is have a look at the card to jog memories as to the specifics of the type we're gonna fly. Then it's up to the purser/No1/Lead to conduct a FS briefing.
As Euroboy says, interrogations are not that effective. What I usually do is make each FA ask the person next to her/him a question, and this includes myself. (I specify that no-brainers are not on ) This tends to focus everybody's mind! We also have a signalling box in each briefing room, so we can listen to how the different emergency signals actually sound on the ac we're going to work on.
Iggy, I think what my colleagues are referring to in this thread is the pre-flight safety conditioning carried out by the cabin crew among themselves, not a briefing by the pilots. Still, your description of the realities of relations between cockpit and cabin crew in your company is harrowing! And as always,, I wonder how it can be allowed, and how this state of affairs impacts on Flight Safety? Yes, it would be interesting to hear from FA's from your company and to find out how they look at the whole thing. May-be you could promote PPRuNe and this forum a bit among your cabin crews, and get them on here and talk to us? rgrds f40
Agree along the lines with euroboy. Safety questions important - the fact that they are done is enought to ensure that crew keep up to date. No need for set planning - like everything else should be geared for the situation.
Service briefing doesn't need to be so much likes and don't likes - should be topical with pax profile and experience passed on.
A good briefing with an understanding, firm come approachable attitude can work wonders to motivate crew and get them on the right wavelength.
Don't claim to be the genius but 13 years as purser in airline with 40 odd nationalities and not a lot of problems on the aircraft probably counts for something!
i've been a cabin crew for 3 yrs and in that time i'd say that about 5 per cent of my briefings have been interesting..
they all ask the same ?'s and to tell you the truth it gets a bit tedious to say the least. not taking anything away from the people that try to make them a little interesting but in general they r boring...
lets face it folks, we r all adults and if u can't take the time to know your sh"t then u shouldn't be flying.
u don't have to be an einstein to be a cabin crew...................
XTC, your ignorance shows why we do have to give briefings before a flight. Yes they can sometimes be boring, especially for a WELL KNOWLEDGED person like yourself Yet not everyone there in the briefing knows there stuff and sometimes need a bit of a jog of memory to kickstart the flight. To that effect I hope I dont fly with you or have to give you any briefings as you would find me.......how would you say it......boring!
It's because of the 3 years of great knowledge and b-o-r-i-n-g briefings that experienced crew do them to motivate the others who aren't so b-o-r-e-d and interested in learning off others.
Whilst most are adult you seem to be in the minority who think you are!
Bye the way what the hell did happen to your mate C-o-o-l E-m-i-r-a-t-e-s = did he miss the 5% interesting briefing?
[This message has been edited by Octopus (edited 10 February 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Octopus (edited 10 February 2001).]
flaps, who gives a flying f*ck if u know how to taste a good drop of red, at the end of the day its your safety that is of paramount importance, so i make sure i know my stuff, and i expect my fellow crew to do the same. i'm not saying that i am overly intelligent (but definitly gifted), but it takes about 10 mins of reading before each flight and u keep up to date and if the info don't sink in after 1 year of flying then yes they probably r at the same level as you flaps...... its something that should never be compramised, which i see happen too many times, which brings me back to the square one, briefings r boring..
does this sound familiar: what r the pre flight checks for a halon? what do u do if a pax faints? what r the signs to a toilet fire?
have i made my point. yes i think i have, i will move on now....
comefly, i dunno mate but if u keep playing that flight sim then yes, u too may become a pilot one day... god help us!!!!!
octapus, how r ya, i hope u r well, miss the chitty chats we had, all in good fun u know that...
cool ek and i r really cooooool if u get my drift.... but i'll see if i can get a guest appearance out of her yet... lets just say that i have corrected her spelling and grammer once and for all ...
oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
this is just soooooooo much fun..
[This message has been edited by xtc (edited 12 February 2001).]
XTC I think you owe flapsforty an apology. He/she made a simple comment about the way you made cabin crew sound like thickheads. he/she was not being ignorant. Yes I have to admit there are some out there that are space cadets but all our pax are not Einsteins either. You just stick to what you know best....selling ice blocks!
xtc!!! I believe as well you have to apologize to Flaps...I found your reply quite rude...and yes...if we were all at the same level Flaps is...believe me....the sky would be a better place to fly Do you actually know her level? Do you actually know what company she works for? Do you know her position? do you know how many yeeeaaarrrrssss of experience she has?? For those of us who knows Flaps and appreciate her as a Friend and as a true proffessional woman...your reply was quite ------!!!!! Well...you should know your stuff, that's true...but how many people doesn't?? or just how many people just forget about something??? A friendly advice...next time think before you write something personal on somebody!!!
xenia - just because flags may be what u say she is, does that give her the right to put others down....... i never start throwing insults but i always reply...
just read flygirls topic and the proof is there for all to see so stop your sooking all of you, especially you comefly.
comefly, i hope u don't forget your rings buddy....... all the best!!!!!!!!!!!
Crew safety briefings 
) This tends to focus everybody's mind! We also have a signalling box in each briefing room, so we can listen to how the different emergency signals actually sound on the ac we're going to work on.
Yet not everyone there in the briefing knows there stuff and sometimes need a bit of a jog of memory to kickstart the flight. To that effect I hope I dont fly with you or have to give you any briefings as you would find me.......how would you say it......boring!
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