Real Operating Cost for a 7X v Legacy 650
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Real Operating Cost for a 7X v Legacy 650
We currently operate a Challenger 601 and the boss feels that it is time to change and upgrade the old bird. I thought we would be looking at a 605 as this would be the natural jump, but the boss has gone a bit off the reservation (and Bombarider) and has narrowed his options to either (a) used 7x (around 2010-2012 vintage), or (b) a Legacy 650.
He likes the three cabin layout of both planes (he doesn't really care what happens up front), and loves the reliability of the 650 and its discrete ramp presence, but the 7x is tempting as given some changes to his business we will be flying from Barcelona to Auckland about every 6 weeks, so he is quite tempted by the longer ranger adnfewer stops the 7x would need.
The brokers are saying with the 7x we would not see much difference on the operating cost over a Legacy 650 (and neither should be that different from our 601), and from the data I can gather at least on paper there does not seem to be that much difference (ignoring acquisition cost).
I would greatly appreciate if anyone would have any real world information or views on how different the operating costs would be.
The other question I have is whether anyone is able to confirm real world range on the two aircraft. From the number I can see the 7x should be able to do Barcelona to Auckland with just one fuel stop (and crew change) and the same on the return. The Legacy 650 would seem to need 3 stops. Anyone able to confirm either of these on real world figures would be appreciated. Load will be pretty low, usually it is either just him and his family (wife plus 2 young kids) and maybe a personal assistant.
Outside the Auckland trip its mainly just within Europe, so his view is if operating costs really are similar, then the higher purchase price is worth it, otherwise his view is he'll just probably live with the extra fuel stops and go for a 650.
He likes the three cabin layout of both planes (he doesn't really care what happens up front), and loves the reliability of the 650 and its discrete ramp presence, but the 7x is tempting as given some changes to his business we will be flying from Barcelona to Auckland about every 6 weeks, so he is quite tempted by the longer ranger adnfewer stops the 7x would need.
The brokers are saying with the 7x we would not see much difference on the operating cost over a Legacy 650 (and neither should be that different from our 601), and from the data I can gather at least on paper there does not seem to be that much difference (ignoring acquisition cost).
I would greatly appreciate if anyone would have any real world information or views on how different the operating costs would be.
The other question I have is whether anyone is able to confirm real world range on the two aircraft. From the number I can see the 7x should be able to do Barcelona to Auckland with just one fuel stop (and crew change) and the same on the return. The Legacy 650 would seem to need 3 stops. Anyone able to confirm either of these on real world figures would be appreciated. Load will be pretty low, usually it is either just him and his family (wife plus 2 young kids) and maybe a personal assistant.
Outside the Auckland trip its mainly just within Europe, so his view is if operating costs really are similar, then the higher purchase price is worth it, otherwise his view is he'll just probably live with the extra fuel stops and go for a 650.
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we operated a 7X and a G550 in parallel for the last few years, and if you're on the warranty programs, it's about the same experience really... with the Gulfstream still the more reliable machine, but that was not the question.
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Hi there,
I think you will have to make two stops in the 7x when going from Auckland to Barcelona. To do one stop everyday the best plane for you it's a g550 or a global 6000.
On the other hand love the legacy it's a great plane but yes maybe you will have to do 3 stops
I think you will have to make two stops in the 7x when going from Auckland to Barcelona. To do one stop everyday the best plane for you it's a g550 or a global 6000.
On the other hand love the legacy it's a great plane but yes maybe you will have to do 3 stops
For Barcelona to Auckland, two en-route stops absolute minimum, you do not want to be arriving in or near WSSL Singapore with less than 60 holding due weather and Auckland NZAA is a single runway so smart money is you carry 'contingency' fuel to go to Christchurch or Wellington. Therefore Male/YBRM Broome/NZAA is a good route.
For the return leg depending on the time of the year you will need minimum of 3 stops, 100k plus headwinds between NZAA and almost near WSSL or even Gan or Male etc.
7X is a very reliable aircraft, make sure you are fully paid up on ALL the manufacturers programmes and you will enjoy the experience.
Plenty of 'posts' on Prune re range/endurance of the 7X but the 'key' to a 7X is to fly precisely in accordance with the manufacturers AFM.
Enjoy, it's a great ride!
For the return leg depending on the time of the year you will need minimum of 3 stops, 100k plus headwinds between NZAA and almost near WSSL or even Gan or Male etc.
7X is a very reliable aircraft, make sure you are fully paid up on ALL the manufacturers programmes and you will enjoy the experience.
Plenty of 'posts' on Prune re range/endurance of the 7X but the 'key' to a 7X is to fly precisely in accordance with the manufacturers AFM.
Enjoy, it's a great ride!
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Legacy 650 @ Mach .77 from Barcelona to Auckland. Every 6 weeks. I suggest you charter both airplanes to fly that trip and ride along with the boss and see the practicability of this.
Maybe you should get the Legacy for your European work and have him book himself 1st class tickets with the airlines for his Auckland flights?
Maybe you should get the Legacy for your European work and have him book himself 1st class tickets with the airlines for his Auckland flights?
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Many thanks everyone, very helpful.
Does anyone have any data on the operating cost differences?
As for suggestions of a G550/Global XRS, we looked at those, but the operating costs were way beyond what he is willing to spend (even though he could afford) as most flights are within EU. Space-shuttle-driver, that's not a bad idea on the charter, will recommend. Flying first class is out, his kids are young (below 6) and he views the flights as his opportunity to spend one on one time with them
Does anyone have any data on the operating cost differences?
As for suggestions of a G550/Global XRS, we looked at those, but the operating costs were way beyond what he is willing to spend (even though he could afford) as most flights are within EU. Space-shuttle-driver, that's not a bad idea on the charter, will recommend. Flying first class is out, his kids are young (below 6) and he views the flights as his opportunity to spend one on one time with them
Yan601,
I haven't flown either, only the Falcon 900, but I wouldn't worry about heading back the same way you came; just keep travelling east with the wind.
The distance maybe a little longer(approx. 500nm) but with the extra push, the times will be about the same or better, than returning Westward:
LEBL-WSSL 5881nm
WSSL-NZAA 4549nm
NZAA-KLAX 5652nm
KLAX-LEBL 5235nm
I don't know if you're familiar with the areas I've mentioned(WSSL or KLAX) but there are quite a few options for alternates within an hour of each or even pick something in Malaysia or Indonesia instead of Singapore if you want an ILS for arrival instead of a visual into Seletar; FYI there is supposed to be an ILS in Seletar in the near future; and there's so many options around Southern California you'll have plenty of places to land.
Seaeagle109
I haven't flown either, only the Falcon 900, but I wouldn't worry about heading back the same way you came; just keep travelling east with the wind.
The distance maybe a little longer(approx. 500nm) but with the extra push, the times will be about the same or better, than returning Westward:
LEBL-WSSL 5881nm
WSSL-NZAA 4549nm
NZAA-KLAX 5652nm
KLAX-LEBL 5235nm
I don't know if you're familiar with the areas I've mentioned(WSSL or KLAX) but there are quite a few options for alternates within an hour of each or even pick something in Malaysia or Indonesia instead of Singapore if you want an ILS for arrival instead of a visual into Seletar; FYI there is supposed to be an ILS in Seletar in the near future; and there's so many options around Southern California you'll have plenty of places to land.
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I am a current Legacy 650 Pilot.
Have flown from 145 to the 650 for 10 years.
The new Legacy 650 is the E which if you are going for one I would suggest.
They have updated it with the FANS, CPDLC, Auto throttles and a few other things it really needed.
The Legacy is a work horse as it's derived from an airliner and has relatively good dispatch rate, it's rare that I fine myself grounded due to tech problems.
It has been dubbed the Skoda of the biz jet world, that said the after sales service is good world wide and should you need a part the airliner background and the fact the 135s and 145s are still in service and share most of the parts give them good availability.
The cockpit is roomy and the seats slide back for plenty of leg room on long flights(3900nm range FL140 mmo .80 long range .74/.76 I use we have had 8.5hrs out of it but that is slow.)
The cabin alt is 8100 at FL410 which makes you a bit weary on long flights as I understand others are around 5000.
Its a good bang for your buck plane, that said if someone offered me a 7x job tomorrow you wouldn't see me for dust.
But i've enjoyed flying it.
Let me know if you need more info.
Have flown from 145 to the 650 for 10 years.
The new Legacy 650 is the E which if you are going for one I would suggest.
They have updated it with the FANS, CPDLC, Auto throttles and a few other things it really needed.
The Legacy is a work horse as it's derived from an airliner and has relatively good dispatch rate, it's rare that I fine myself grounded due to tech problems.
It has been dubbed the Skoda of the biz jet world, that said the after sales service is good world wide and should you need a part the airliner background and the fact the 135s and 145s are still in service and share most of the parts give them good availability.
The cockpit is roomy and the seats slide back for plenty of leg room on long flights(3900nm range FL140 mmo .80 long range .74/.76 I use we have had 8.5hrs out of it but that is slow.)
The cabin alt is 8100 at FL410 which makes you a bit weary on long flights as I understand others are around 5000.
Its a good bang for your buck plane, that said if someone offered me a 7x job tomorrow you wouldn't see me for dust.
But i've enjoyed flying it.
Let me know if you need more info.
