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Old 7th Feb 2017, 12:14   #1 (permalink)
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Challenger beyond repair after in-flight upset?

A rumour - Supposedly sometime in the last two months a Challenger was up set in flight and 'lost 10,000ft' before control was regained. Pilot was able to land safely but aircraft was overstressed (?) and reportedly will not be repaired. At least one passenger is said to have been seriously injured in the event. I've had a dig around and can not find anything to confirm this alleged event - has anyone else heard anything? I apologise in advance if this is just type of dog and bull story.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 14:48   #2 (permalink)
 
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You did check ASN on that? Usually their database is quite complete and such an incident most probably would show up there.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 15:10   #3 (permalink)
 
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A CL604 enroute Male to Europe, upset by opposite direction, 1,000' above, A380's wake. Several rolls, large G excursions. Diverted into Muscat.
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 15:17   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks GF - I'd heard that too but didn't want to post it in case it wasn't correct. Happened at FL320?
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Old 7th Feb 2017, 16:54   #5 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
A CL604 enroute Male to Europe, upset by opposite direction, 1,000' above, A380's wake. Several rolls, large G excursions. Diverted into Muscat.
Really? Wow! That is quite impressive in a rather unfortunate way for the challenger.
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 09:33   #6 (permalink)
 
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Jeez... That must have been horrific in the cabin... And, we all know, seat belts get less ware on our aircraft than they ideally would...
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 10:03   #7 (permalink)
 
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It is becoming fairly common to have a Super or Heavy pass 1000' above. It is difficult to anticipate but I suppose you can quickly ask for and take a slight heading change upwind.......or do you just sit there wait to see what happens? Does ATC have any responsibility to avoid such scenarios?
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 10:37   #8 (permalink)
 
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I wondered when this would make the headlines!
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 12:13   #9 (permalink)
 
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Had a similar but not so severe experience between Delhi and Dubai with an A340 some years ago. We were in an Embraer Legacy at FL380 with very strong Headwind, which was straight on the nose. The aircraft banked fairly sharpish 45 degrees right, followed very quickly to the left. Autopilot came out, virtually immidiately.
Since than, seeing an aircraft on TCAS coming towards me, i offset by 2 miles as it is recommended anyway.
That was scary stuff.
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Old 8th Feb 2017, 13:13   #10 (permalink)
 
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i offset by 2 miles as it is recommended anyway.
In a crosswind towards you as well ? just asking, we fly offset ovhd AFR and no rdr coverage. What to do when you in a, say, LAM hold just under one of these real big ones ?
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Old 9th Feb 2017, 21:20   #11 (permalink)
 
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Done, mutt, but it might be past your bedtime in the ME
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Old 9th Feb 2017, 22:12   #12 (permalink)
 
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I put stuff 1,000 below supers every day....

We still don't fully understand wake. Remember that 777 that banked 45 degrees in severe wake turbulence from a 380 50nm ahead and 1,000 above a few years ago coming off the NAT westbound?

http://www.flyingmag.com/pilots-places/pilots-adventures-more/jumpseat-assaulted-a380
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Old 9th Feb 2017, 22:39   #13 (permalink)
 
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Is there a report to read? I can understand a bit of an upset when flying through the wake of a larger aircraft, but how much of the subsequent 'manoeuvring' of the Challenger was caused by the crew trying to recover/remedy the situation? Surely they hadn't lost complete control of the aircraft, or did their initial actions compound the situation!
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Old 10th Feb 2017, 00:43   #14 (permalink)
 
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Not yet, happened a couple of weeks ago
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Old 10th Feb 2017, 08:50   #15 (permalink)
 
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Great PeaCOCK
Not even a report out and you're casting doubt on the crews actions!
Challenger wing is super critical, so maybe this has compounded things in an opposite direction incident?
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Old 10th Feb 2017, 10:17   #16 (permalink)
 
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380s are a different kettle of fish altogether. When I was flying the Lear 45, a colleague had an upset in the LTMA at around FL160 around 10 miles behind a super. Autopilot disconnected and the aircraft rolled to 70 with the nose dropping rapidly. Promptly recovered but pretty exciting for them even so. Fortunately it was day VMC and an empty leg.
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Old 10th Feb 2017, 15:32   #17 (permalink)
 
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I believe a Hawker 800 had a similar upset behind a A380 or 744. At altitude the FAA says, with the lower air density, the strength of the vortex cause effects similar to approach conditions. See FAA AC on wake.
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Old 17th Feb 2017, 05:51   #18 (permalink)
 
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Any Reports on this published ?
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Old 17th Feb 2017, 09:01   #19 (permalink)
 
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what I could find is...

The operator is MHS Aviation, the flight was MHV640, I believe it was D-AMSC, Challenger 604 s/n 5564, but i didn't find anything official.
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Old 17th Feb 2017, 09:16   #20 (permalink)
 
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Correct Flexjet.
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