Goal: G650 captain. Choosing the right jobs to get there.
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Goal: G650 captain. Choosing the right jobs to get there.
Hopefully this thread can open up to a broad discussion of the best path to the goal of one day being a G650 captain (or similar).
I am a lucky, and good, low time pilot just shy of 1500 hours and I am lucky enough to fly as a co-captain on a CL604 as well as single pilot in a Pilatus all part 91. In total about 400 to 450 hours per year. My question is this: Is this a viable path to upgrade throughout my career and ultimately achieve my goal? Would taking a job that offers another large cabin type rating and similar hours boost my resume vs continuing my current course? I have seen varying minimum TT numbers as well as PIC and Turbine time. What would you see as a goal of minimum time to be viewed as a serious candidate for future jobs in part 91?
I am a lucky, and good, low time pilot just shy of 1500 hours and I am lucky enough to fly as a co-captain on a CL604 as well as single pilot in a Pilatus all part 91. In total about 400 to 450 hours per year. My question is this: Is this a viable path to upgrade throughout my career and ultimately achieve my goal? Would taking a job that offers another large cabin type rating and similar hours boost my resume vs continuing my current course? I have seen varying minimum TT numbers as well as PIC and Turbine time. What would you see as a goal of minimum time to be viewed as a serious candidate for future jobs in part 91?
There are many paths to achieving your stated goal. Getting the hours and types of experience are important along with a history of progress along your career path. For example one G-650 Captain instructed primary students then progressed to flying tourists in 402s to junky 8 seat charter jets to nicer 8 seat charter jets to G-IIIs then on to the nicest G-iron. Others got there by a multitude of different paths. For nearly all, the ability to fly the airplane safely and well is a given. The ability to manage crews, budgets and relationships with aplomb is what distinguishes the successful candidate from the rest.
Picking your battles and learning to play the corporate game will help you avoid most of the shunts that can derail your progress. "Playing the game" in this instance is intended to mean avoiding confrontation without compromising your professional integrity. Walking that fine line. You seek to be known as trustworthy, competent and discrete in all respects. Just as being a pushover yes-man will earn disdain among your peers, it will also identify you to your superiors as weak and lacking in leadership potential. Just as bad, being involved too many confrontations or being perceived as intractable is a career obstacle. Demonstrated success is not only a broad and deep history of meeting or exceeding expectations, but also of doing it without upsetting the apple cart.
It's tempting to think that just achieving a certain level of qualification and experience entitles one to job, but in reality it requires more. And in corporate flying, he right people speaking up for you is invaluable at any level.
Full disclosure: I only made it to the mid-size jet PIC level in management/charter companies before getting left behind in the Great Recession. But in my experience people with the above qualities are who I saw move into the nicest rides and thrive during that time. And no matter how focused one might be upon a specific goal, future circumstances may call for some flexibility of expectations.
Good luck in your career. Balance and discretion in all things.
Picking your battles and learning to play the corporate game will help you avoid most of the shunts that can derail your progress. "Playing the game" in this instance is intended to mean avoiding confrontation without compromising your professional integrity. Walking that fine line. You seek to be known as trustworthy, competent and discrete in all respects. Just as being a pushover yes-man will earn disdain among your peers, it will also identify you to your superiors as weak and lacking in leadership potential. Just as bad, being involved too many confrontations or being perceived as intractable is a career obstacle. Demonstrated success is not only a broad and deep history of meeting or exceeding expectations, but also of doing it without upsetting the apple cart.
It's tempting to think that just achieving a certain level of qualification and experience entitles one to job, but in reality it requires more. And in corporate flying, he right people speaking up for you is invaluable at any level.
Full disclosure: I only made it to the mid-size jet PIC level in management/charter companies before getting left behind in the Great Recession. But in my experience people with the above qualities are who I saw move into the nicest rides and thrive during that time. And no matter how focused one might be upon a specific goal, future circumstances may call for some flexibility of expectations.
Good luck in your career. Balance and discretion in all things.
Everything Westhawk said is bang on. Next, you have to network which ain't handing out business cards. Share everything you learn and don't stop learning. Don't be a suck-up, but a few quiet favors will pay dividends. I did one for a fellow Reservist, years later he hadn't forgotten it and the memory put me in a Global. Maintain those relationships, a call just to stay in touch, pass on good wishes for some personal event, etc.
Become an expert in some area of operating the 604--log on to the CIC site and brief your pilots on winter flt ops; be the expert there. Debrief every flight--I met a 2-pilot 601 crew who moved to a new 605 by debriefing every flight and having concrete evidence where the new capabilities would be safer or more efficient. Two years when business improved and more overseas flights were likely, they were ready with details, cost estimates included.
In the US, just about every operator swaps seats whoever is in the left seat is the captain. We let sign the flight plan.
GF
Become an expert in some area of operating the 604--log on to the CIC site and brief your pilots on winter flt ops; be the expert there. Debrief every flight--I met a 2-pilot 601 crew who moved to a new 605 by debriefing every flight and having concrete evidence where the new capabilities would be safer or more efficient. Two years when business improved and more overseas flights were likely, they were ready with details, cost estimates included.
In the US, just about every operator swaps seats whoever is in the left seat is the captain. We let sign the flight plan.
GF
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To the OP: why is your focus only on big iron? Nice when you get there, sure, but what you will learn in life is that the quality of the job trumps the type you fly. Above average pay, adequate time off, professional and respectful crew members and well maintained equipment with a company who doesn't mind spending money when it's necessary are few things that help with quality of life and working environment.
With the right credentials it isn't hard to land a job (in US) flying G5 or larger but landing that job with a solid and dependable employer who you enjoy working for is the real quest...and those jobs don't come around often because folks don't leave them. You will learn that flying a Challenger 300 for an excellent flight department is a lot more fun than flying your G-650 for a dick.
Before you start to salivate after that Gulfstream job you're being considered for take a look at the current group working there. Is it a revolving door? Why?
A job that offers a good quality of life is the job to keep for the long run. I have been lucky after 27 years at corporate aviation with only 3 jobs...2 of them excellent and employed for over 12+ years at each. 1 job I tolerated for 2 years but furthered my career with a CL 604 rating and time in type.
Also, as to your comment of being a "...lucky, and good.." pilot. Suggest you dial down the ego a bit. Stay humble...it will serve you well.
You will get there eventually...and by then the G-650 will be old news and we will all be on to something better. When I began my career G-4 and Falcon 50 was the ultimate,..and Bombardier was known for building good water toys and trains. Imagine that. I've been 7 years on the Global now, happy, content, and will stay her as long as they'll have me.
With the right credentials it isn't hard to land a job (in US) flying G5 or larger but landing that job with a solid and dependable employer who you enjoy working for is the real quest...and those jobs don't come around often because folks don't leave them. You will learn that flying a Challenger 300 for an excellent flight department is a lot more fun than flying your G-650 for a dick.
Before you start to salivate after that Gulfstream job you're being considered for take a look at the current group working there. Is it a revolving door? Why?
A job that offers a good quality of life is the job to keep for the long run. I have been lucky after 27 years at corporate aviation with only 3 jobs...2 of them excellent and employed for over 12+ years at each. 1 job I tolerated for 2 years but furthered my career with a CL 604 rating and time in type.
Also, as to your comment of being a "...lucky, and good.." pilot. Suggest you dial down the ego a bit. Stay humble...it will serve you well.
You will get there eventually...and by then the G-650 will be old news and we will all be on to something better. When I began my career G-4 and Falcon 50 was the ultimate,..and Bombardier was known for building good water toys and trains. Imagine that. I've been 7 years on the Global now, happy, content, and will stay her as long as they'll have me.
Last edited by ksjc; 5th Oct 2016 at 13:06.
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Always thought you wouldn't need to be lucky when your good...
But of course, if you´re both, thats a real vantage....
More seriously, can one really plan his career so strategically ? Mine went not along the paths I had thought it would. Theres just way to much beyond your influence. And I never seemed to have the right qualification at the time.... either I lacked in FMS experience or the EFIS we had was not EFIS enough or I lacked jet experience (the biggest joke of all) or I lack 50tons + experience... whatever the chief pilot in question would come up with... others weren´t that picky, luckily, and I´m okay about how it went although I´d really love to fly a F2000 instead of the Sovereign I´m on - just because the cockpit and the chairs in it are an attack on ones health.
But of course, if you´re both, thats a real vantage....
More seriously, can one really plan his career so strategically ? Mine went not along the paths I had thought it would. Theres just way to much beyond your influence. And I never seemed to have the right qualification at the time.... either I lacked in FMS experience or the EFIS we had was not EFIS enough or I lacked jet experience (the biggest joke of all) or I lack 50tons + experience... whatever the chief pilot in question would come up with... others weren´t that picky, luckily, and I´m okay about how it went although I´d really love to fly a F2000 instead of the Sovereign I´m on - just because the cockpit and the chairs in it are an attack on ones health.
Try flying a Bell 412 or 212 helicopter for years and then your back comes out the shape of a question mark. Any jet is Luuuuuuxury by comparison.
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I guess it's been awhile since someone posted here- so maybe the thread is dead/dying. Anyway, I just read the thread and wanted to say how impressed I was with some of the experienced guys passing on their wisdom to 'Pilotstuff' and us all.
I've been a G650 pilot since early 2013. I worked my way up through the military, airlines, and corporate. I tried to walk the fine line between safety and meeting all of my client's expectations. I didn't always get it right but I kept trying and learning.
Westhawk's advice rings true -The ability to manage crews, budgets and relationships with aplomb is what distinguishes the successful candidate from the rest.
I particularly liked KSJC's point about finding the right job, which might not be the best aircraft. After a certain point they are all amazing machines to fly- I include most midsize bus jets (Challenger 300) and up in this pool. They all have Air Conditioning on the ground....
And GalaxyFlyer's point about networking is THE key. A big part of networking can be done in your current organization. If you are a positive crew member, helpful, kind, decent then you will naturally succeed. Talk to other pilots, ask questions, be proactive! Join LinkedIn, go to tradeshows, cold-call people, etc. I could ramble on and on about the right attitude to get the next job but really it comes down to being proactive.
I'm always interested in how young corporate pilots on large bizjets made it. Invariably their attitude was always positive and friendly. they were all proactive.
'Pilotstuff' the fact that you have put yourself out there on this forum to ask this question tells me that you are well on your way to becoming a successful corporate pilot.
I've been a G650 pilot since early 2013. I worked my way up through the military, airlines, and corporate. I tried to walk the fine line between safety and meeting all of my client's expectations. I didn't always get it right but I kept trying and learning.
Westhawk's advice rings true -The ability to manage crews, budgets and relationships with aplomb is what distinguishes the successful candidate from the rest.
I particularly liked KSJC's point about finding the right job, which might not be the best aircraft. After a certain point they are all amazing machines to fly- I include most midsize bus jets (Challenger 300) and up in this pool. They all have Air Conditioning on the ground....
And GalaxyFlyer's point about networking is THE key. A big part of networking can be done in your current organization. If you are a positive crew member, helpful, kind, decent then you will naturally succeed. Talk to other pilots, ask questions, be proactive! Join LinkedIn, go to tradeshows, cold-call people, etc. I could ramble on and on about the right attitude to get the next job but really it comes down to being proactive.
I'm always interested in how young corporate pilots on large bizjets made it. Invariably their attitude was always positive and friendly. they were all proactive.
'Pilotstuff' the fact that you have put yourself out there on this forum to ask this question tells me that you are well on your way to becoming a successful corporate pilot.
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Hi Guys
Slightly off topic but do you know if the G650 is a ZFT- zero flight time sim or does the EASA CAA UK require actual base training when type rating is complete…?
Thank you in advance………!
Slightly off topic but do you know if the G650 is a ZFT- zero flight time sim or does the EASA CAA UK require actual base training when type rating is complete…?
Thank you in advance………!
Serious question, why has the UK and the EU stuck with the base training requirement? The FAA world deleted it 15 or more years ago.
GF
GF
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Sort of, sure. Nevertheless, I'm on my fourth type rating, and for none of them did I have to fly the airplane empty prior to flying "paying passengers".
A good level 4 Sim with visuals is a much better training aid than the aircraft.
The first time I flew a real B744 was a revenue flight full of pax. Check Captain in RHS of course. (Probably best not to let the customers know!!)
The first time I flew a real B744 was a revenue flight full of pax. Check Captain in RHS of course. (Probably best not to let the customers know!!)
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Sorry, but you flew from the LEFT seat on your first ever flight in type with an airliner full of pax? I am not familiar with airline ops but this seems abnormal, no?
Very normal in airline Ops.
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Not abnormal at all in airline operations. Keep in mind that at least with US airlines a pilot can hold whatever seat his seniority allows, so an MD-88 F/O can transition directly to B777 CA, if his seniority is high enough. In that scenario he'll be flying it from the left seat in his first-ever flight in type with a planeload of pax. That being said, the check airman in the right seat is still in command but the new CA is in the left seat, which makes sense since that's what he's in line training for.
