EASA Lic for N Reg pilots domiciled EU.
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EASA Lic for N Reg pilots domiciled EU.
N Reg Ops EU.
Met a guy recently, flying N Reg biz jet on FAA lic.based UK.
Keeps failing his EASA licence exams and is being laid off next week due the EASA dictat re EASA licence required for N Reg ops .
I thought the requirement had been delayed another year by EASA??
Met a guy recently, flying N Reg biz jet on FAA lic.based UK.
Keeps failing his EASA licence exams and is being laid off next week due the EASA dictat re EASA licence required for N Reg ops .
I thought the requirement had been delayed another year by EASA??
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It has, 8th April 2017, Euro Parliament approved
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It has, 8th April 2017, Euro Parliament approved
Wednesday, 9 March 2016 - Non-objection to an implementing measure: pilot training, testing and periodic checking for performance-based navigation
The actual list of countries and their willingness to enact is documented in an Excel sheet to be found here: opt-out-from-regulations - scroll down to downloads and get "Derogations from Regulation (EU) 1178/2011 as amended"
You are aware of the parallel thread, so we may keep only one on the issue?
For BA flying and given the uncertainty with different european countries enactments, although my feelings are with the pilot being fired, but I do see the point of the employer as well. The pilot may relocate to outside EU and keep flying as is.
Last edited by Fly4Business; 5th Apr 2016 at 09:59.
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I have read the link you sent, maybe it is me but I can only see reference to PPL holders in that document?
JetBlu posted a link on the private flying forum for CAA IN-2016/024 which confirms a delay... However we are now 3 days away from these changes.
I suspect the EASA reference on the post above is specific to PPL holders because a BSA for them is in the final stages. Unfortunately, for professional holders a BSA is still a long way off.
The CAA, for what it is worth, are not even aware that a BSA is taking place, this was taken from communication in March!
WTF is going on with these guys?
JetBlu posted a link on the private flying forum for CAA IN-2016/024 which confirms a delay... However we are now 3 days away from these changes.
I suspect the EASA reference on the post above is specific to PPL holders because a BSA for them is in the final stages. Unfortunately, for professional holders a BSA is still a long way off.
The CAA, for what it is worth, are not even aware that a BSA is taking place, this was taken from communication in March!
WTF is going on with these guys?
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The CAA, for what it is worth, are not even aware that a BSA is taking place, this was taken from communication in March!
Yes the BASA applies to PPL holders only and from what I gathered this morning the 3rd country and BASA are of one or none so jump to your own conclusion re commercial licenses and 3rd country
Pace
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Not true Pace, the draft regulation includes all third country licence holders and is worded more or less like last year. The full draft includes all of the information which Europarl have made law. An extract below,
'whereas the draft Commission regulation is aimed at, among other things, prolonging by one year an existing transition period for holders of a private pilot licence, from 8 April 2016 to April 2017;'
It is the 'among other things' which relates to third country licence holders engaged in Non Commercial Ops, which is included in the rest of the draft reg which is now law
'whereas the draft Commission regulation is aimed at, among other things, prolonging by one year an existing transition period for holders of a private pilot licence, from 8 April 2016 to April 2017;'
It is the 'among other things' which relates to third country licence holders engaged in Non Commercial Ops, which is included in the rest of the draft reg which is now law
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And here is the part you require in the main part of the draft which is low law,
Paragraph 4 of Article 12 is replaced by the following:
'4. By way of derogation from paragraph 1, Member States may decide not to apply the provisions of this Regulation until 8 April 2017 to pilots holding a licence and associated medical certificate issued by a third country involved in the non- commercial operation of aircraft as specified in Article 4(1)(b) or (c) of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008. Member States shall make those decisions publicly available.'
(4) Annexes I and VII are amended in accordance with the Annex to this Regulation.
Article 2
This Regulation shall enter into force on the day of its publication in the Official Journal of
the European Union.
It shall apply from 8 April 2016.
Paragraph 4 of Article 12 is replaced by the following:
'4. By way of derogation from paragraph 1, Member States may decide not to apply the provisions of this Regulation until 8 April 2017 to pilots holding a licence and associated medical certificate issued by a third country involved in the non- commercial operation of aircraft as specified in Article 4(1)(b) or (c) of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008. Member States shall make those decisions publicly available.'
(4) Annexes I and VII are amended in accordance with the Annex to this Regulation.
Article 2
This Regulation shall enter into force on the day of its publication in the Official Journal of
the European Union.
It shall apply from 8 April 2016.
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Personally I would struggle discerning 'other things' to mean that could/would/should include professional licence holders.
Historically the CAA normally release an update on either Feb or March each year confirming (another) delay. This year has been slightly different. Would this be because the individual handling this is out of office until several days after the 8th?
Does no one else join me in thinking this is a huge mess??
Historically the CAA normally release an update on either Feb or March each year confirming (another) delay. This year has been slightly different. Would this be because the individual handling this is out of office until several days after the 8th?
Does no one else join me in thinking this is a huge mess??
Last edited by moonym20; 5th Apr 2016 at 10:51. Reason: dreadful spelling
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Full lawful draft regulation here regarding third country non commercial ops licence holders now ok to 8 April 2017.
No one needs to lose a job over this, as you can see it's been extended another year
http://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/...16-INIT/en/pdf
No one needs to lose a job over this, as you can see it's been extended another year
http://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/...16-INIT/en/pdf
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The Commission presented the draft to the EU Parliament. The EU Parliament raised no objections and it was implemented into law on the 8th March 2016 which you can see from a previous posters link above, hence this draft is now lawful.
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Thanks for the link to the document.
(3)
Paragraph 4 of Article 12 is replaced by the following:
'4. By way of derogation from paragraph 1, Member States may decide not to apply the provisions of this Regulation until 8 April 2017 to pilots holding a licence and associated medical certificate issued by a third country involved in the non-commercial operation of aircraft as specified in Article 4(1)(b) or (c) of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008. Member States shall make those decisions publicly available
Member States may decide....
The CAA has not yet communicated to me, or anyone that I am aware of their decision to delay or not. They have insinuated that they might. But so far have failed to release anything official to state they have. Instead we have a circle of Chinese whispers 'my mate said this' 'well, in an email to me they said that'....
It is the may in the statement above that gives me doubt. I say again... WTF are the CAA doing??
(3)
Paragraph 4 of Article 12 is replaced by the following:
'4. By way of derogation from paragraph 1, Member States may decide not to apply the provisions of this Regulation until 8 April 2017 to pilots holding a licence and associated medical certificate issued by a third country involved in the non-commercial operation of aircraft as specified in Article 4(1)(b) or (c) of Regulation (EC) No 216/2008. Member States shall make those decisions publicly available
Member States may decide....
The CAA has not yet communicated to me, or anyone that I am aware of their decision to delay or not. They have insinuated that they might. But so far have failed to release anything official to state they have. Instead we have a circle of Chinese whispers 'my mate said this' 'well, in an email to me they said that'....
It is the may in the statement above that gives me doubt. I say again... WTF are the CAA doing??
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The Commission presented the draft to the EU Parliament. The EU Parliament raised no objections and it was implemented into law on the 8th March 2016 which you can see from a previous posters link above, hence this draft is now lawful.
Set clear from the head text in the EASA derogation table already linked above:
In accordance with Commission Regulation (EU)1178/2011 laying down technical requirements and administrative procedures related to civil aviation aircrew, as amended by Commission Regulation, (EU) 290/2012, 245/2014 and 445/2015, EU Member States and EFTA States may decide to postpone the application of certain provisions. When EU Member States and EFTA States decide to do so, they have an obligation to notify the European Commission and the Agency.
Each country has to notify EU/EASA when they opt-out, some did not follow already a year ago and will not this time. UK CAA did opt-out according to the derogation table.
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I think it's the CAA's intention to enact the derogation, judging by their latest information notice in which they agree that additional year is to facilitate a BASA with the FAA.
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalap...detail&id=7251
https://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalap...detail&id=7251
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I am now even more confused...
Trying to get a straight answer from the CAA is like getting water out of a stone....
What is the bottom line then ? Can the UK CAA invoke this ruling even if not all member states have agreed to the derogation ?
At the end of the day, will I be able to fly my N regitered aircraft around Europe without having an EASA license and what are the chances that they will get the BASA for ATPL holders done in this period... ?
Questions questions, I know, but many people lives are going to be changed because of EU bureaucrats power hunger and not because of real safety concerns !
What is the bottom line then ? Can the UK CAA invoke this ruling even if not all member states have agreed to the derogation ?
At the end of the day, will I be able to fly my N regitered aircraft around Europe without having an EASA license and what are the chances that they will get the BASA for ATPL holders done in this period... ?
Questions questions, I know, but many people lives are going to be changed because of EU bureaucrats power hunger and not because of real safety concerns !
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This is the thing though.... because the CAA has said done nothing to confirm or deny a delay everyone effected is now say 'i think' or 'they may'....
I'm not really bashing the CAA or anything... I just believe they are handling this whole fiasco in a dismal manor. Again, this is the same NAA who claim to know nothing about a BSA with the FAA in any capacity. When pushed further, simply blame EASA, close their eyes and hum a tune....
I'm not really bashing the CAA or anything... I just believe they are handling this whole fiasco in a dismal manor. Again, this is the same NAA who claim to know nothing about a BSA with the FAA in any capacity. When pushed further, simply blame EASA, close their eyes and hum a tune....
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After talking with the CAA...
Our ops manager had a very informative conversation with the CAA.
Apparently they are confused as we are from whatever Brussels is doing...
In the next few days they are expected to publish a two month extension to the derogation after which they expect to have the information from Brussels and extend the derogation officially to April 2017.
However, as it was pointed out, the problem is not the new EASA FCL requirements but the part NCC new regulation that will prevent third party pilots to use their licenses in Europe.. (and that's kicking in August if I recall correctly)
Watch this space.
Apparently they are confused as we are from whatever Brussels is doing...
In the next few days they are expected to publish a two month extension to the derogation after which they expect to have the information from Brussels and extend the derogation officially to April 2017.
However, as it was pointed out, the problem is not the new EASA FCL requirements but the part NCC new regulation that will prevent third party pilots to use their licenses in Europe.. (and that's kicking in August if I recall correctly)
Watch this space.
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i) Update on on-going Commission adoption procedures – Information by the Commission
- Regulation 1178/2011 Flight Crew Licensing, amendment delaying the implementation of the provisions for third country pilots licences. The Commission advised that the amendment is moving through the Council and Parliament co-decision process and should be in place by 8 April 2016. The change is intended to allow additional time to conclude a change to the EU-US bilateral aviation safety agreement to include new arrangements for Flight Crew Licensing.
- Regulation 1178/2011 Flight Crew Licensing, amendment delaying the implementation of the provisions for third country pilots licences. The Commission advised that the amendment is moving through the Council and Parliament co-decision process and should be in place by 8 April 2016. The change is intended to allow additional time to conclude a change to the EU-US bilateral aviation safety agreement to include new arrangements for Flight Crew Licensing.
There is a meeting tomorrow Wednesday in Brussels and I hope a lot more clarity by friday