Opinions on Falcon 2000 appreciated
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Compare to your sovereign it will be around 30% more expensive. Especially out of warranty. But up to a C check ( 6 years) it is quite predictable. If the aircraft is under the FalconCare program (or similar) this eases the hurdles, as usual, but there is a premium to it.
As far as the Easy cockpit is concerned, especially Easy2 full package, it is really nice, Easy 1 was lacking a lot of stuff.
Speed; the supercritical point of drag is at .76 on this falcon wing up to .80 you find yourself still on the "flat" portion of the cuve, pushing a mach especially at high weight is a huge issue for range and fuel burn.
The bird meets the books figures, if flown like the book says.
Brake energy limit is like the CG.. you need to work at it to exceed it or to have some kind of penalty. ( pilot technique is unfortunately not taken into account as far as the regulations are concerned) only the charts rules, but if you operate mainly in Europe it should not be an issue ( even Samedan at 35°C)
DO NOT get into a classic..... but if looking for a used Easy..take one WITHOUT winglets...
As far as the Easy cockpit is concerned, especially Easy2 full package, it is really nice, Easy 1 was lacking a lot of stuff.
Speed; the supercritical point of drag is at .76 on this falcon wing up to .80 you find yourself still on the "flat" portion of the cuve, pushing a mach especially at high weight is a huge issue for range and fuel burn.
The bird meets the books figures, if flown like the book says.
Brake energy limit is like the CG.. you need to work at it to exceed it or to have some kind of penalty. ( pilot technique is unfortunately not taken into account as far as the regulations are concerned) only the charts rules, but if you operate mainly in Europe it should not be an issue ( even Samedan at 35°C)
DO NOT get into a classic..... but if looking for a used Easy..take one WITHOUT winglets...
Last edited by CL300; 18th Mar 2015 at 09:28.
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@CL300
Why are you beating down on my F2000. I have been flying mine for 5 years now and still loving it. When we added the winglets we got the range up with another 200 Nm and are now climbing as never before. The proline 21 we are getting takes care of all the modern NAV requirement and for the pax it looks exactly the same.
The trick is to buy one with a fresh C check done by a good maintenance facility.
@ CL300 Give me some good reasons!! And not just say it doesn't have an Easy cockpit, cause neither does your CL300. In fact it has the same proline 21 as installed on the retrofit falcon.
Why are you beating down on my F2000. I have been flying mine for 5 years now and still loving it. When we added the winglets we got the range up with another 200 Nm and are now climbing as never before. The proline 21 we are getting takes care of all the modern NAV requirement and for the pax it looks exactly the same.
The trick is to buy one with a fresh C check done by a good maintenance facility.
@ CL300 Give me some good reasons!! And not just say it doesn't have an Easy cockpit, cause neither does your CL300. In fact it has the same proline 21 as installed on the retrofit falcon.
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5 years ago , i would have said : go for it ! 2000 Classic , winglets proline 21, the whole package, yes !
Today not quite, the economics have changed , the Classic starts to age, and you will find an Easy for that price, with better engine performance, some new systems, a taste of "tomorrow"...
I am sure that your classic works fine, and to be honest i flew falcon 20 retrofitted which are flying like a charm at 40+ years old ( the airframe).
So except for budget ( acquisition) concerns, i would not buy a Classic today.
( as far as the CL30 is concerned, i am not flying it :-) )
ho , yes winglets.... hmmmm... keep them off the plane, hangar, towing, lens cost...are the books reflecting the ground performance now ?
But again, this is my one and me only opinion; everyone has to make a decision otherwise everyone would go for a B747-800.... or an ultralight...
Today not quite, the economics have changed , the Classic starts to age, and you will find an Easy for that price, with better engine performance, some new systems, a taste of "tomorrow"...
I am sure that your classic works fine, and to be honest i flew falcon 20 retrofitted which are flying like a charm at 40+ years old ( the airframe).
So except for budget ( acquisition) concerns, i would not buy a Classic today.
( as far as the CL30 is concerned, i am not flying it :-) )
ho , yes winglets.... hmmmm... keep them off the plane, hangar, towing, lens cost...are the books reflecting the ground performance now ?
But again, this is my one and me only opinion; everyone has to make a decision otherwise everyone would go for a B747-800.... or an ultralight...
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SOAB: still missing an EICAS/ECAM though - right? And does it apply to the "jurassic" with the CFE738s?
Very cool though. I always like to see these schemes to revive old bizjets e.g. Stallion C501, Nextant Hawker 400 etc.
Look forward to ~2025 when somebody comes out with a scheme to put GE Passports on a classic GLEX
Very cool though. I always like to see these schemes to revive old bizjets e.g. Stallion C501, Nextant Hawker 400 etc.
Look forward to ~2025 when somebody comes out with a scheme to put GE Passports on a classic GLEX
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We would need the inner slats, T/O at homebase is the most critical performance number we usually have (3520 or 3675ft of TODA, tricky first segment), so that should rule out the classics... (we have a real classic based, they say they usually can go 500-800nm outta there)
Our Sov with 4 Pax gives us something about 1500-1700nm, Dassault says the LXS does that as well. Less performance out of the homebase would be a show stopper... OTOH the 900 would go further...
Oh well, my dreams...
Thanks everyone.
Our Sov with 4 Pax gives us something about 1500-1700nm, Dassault says the LXS does that as well. Less performance out of the homebase would be a show stopper... OTOH the 900 would go further...
Oh well, my dreams...
Thanks everyone.
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one last piece of comment... If buying new, look closely at the options weight, the 'typical aircraft' from Dassault will be somewhat 1200 Lbs lighter than yours..
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Yes indeed, good point CL300. The Equipped Empty Weight used by Dassault when specifying performance is a figure so far removed from reality that it is misleading. Accordingly a realistically equipped aircraft will never fly the quoted ranges, even if ISA, unrestricted climb and descent conditions exist.
Buyer of a new aircraft would also be wise to ask where electrical components used for customer selected options are going to be fitted to the aircraft. If in the baggage bay, for example, they will diminish available baggage volume and weight that may be carried, and more importantly effect on one's starting CofG.
Of course this is not only a peculiarity of Dassault, but considering the amount of options available nowadays one should look closely at the not so obvious implications of adding everything possible to any aircraft.
Buyer of a new aircraft would also be wise to ask where electrical components used for customer selected options are going to be fitted to the aircraft. If in the baggage bay, for example, they will diminish available baggage volume and weight that may be carried, and more importantly effect on one's starting CofG.
Of course this is not only a peculiarity of Dassault, but considering the amount of options available nowadays one should look closely at the not so obvious implications of adding everything possible to any aircraft.
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No idea if it is cheaper to move a 6 lane road and/or another road plus buildings.
The airport is "grown in" - used to be in the green fields and is now surrounded by the city...
We are trying to have another airport build (an old US Base would readily be available, 2000mtrs runway with 2 ILSes without overflying habitated areas) but in todays climate in Germany I reckon the reappearance of Christ is more likely to happen before that...and even if weŽd build an airport, one never knows when thats going to open...
The airport is "grown in" - used to be in the green fields and is now surrounded by the city...
We are trying to have another airport build (an old US Base would readily be available, 2000mtrs runway with 2 ILSes without overflying habitated areas) but in todays climate in Germany I reckon the reappearance of Christ is more likely to happen before that...and even if weŽd build an airport, one never knows when thats going to open...
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FWIW: the BOM of our EASys is around 25,000 lbs and we do not have a lot of options installed...
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Finally, this is good news for you... not that the updates would take time, but it frees a LOT of space back there for sure !
Less all the inflatable stuff, and you will be fine :-)
Less all the inflatable stuff, and you will be fine :-)
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Hello Guys,
the thing got a bit more momentum at my place, would somebody be able (apart from EMS - thanks btw...) to let me know a BOM for the 2000S and 2000LXS ?
Would be great if IŽd get theses plus what options are installed...
I would highly appreciate any info on them or maybe contact data of people operating these 2...
Although I donŽt think we will go for the 900LX (price), I would like to get some info about them too - that would be the really ideal airplane from our homebase... I think.
the thing got a bit more momentum at my place, would somebody be able (apart from EMS - thanks btw...) to let me know a BOM for the 2000S and 2000LXS ?
Would be great if IŽd get theses plus what options are installed...
I would highly appreciate any info on them or maybe contact data of people operating these 2...
Although I donŽt think we will go for the 900LX (price), I would like to get some info about them too - that would be the really ideal airplane from our homebase... I think.
Last edited by His dudeness; 19th Apr 2015 at 08:47.
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there is not a lot of difference between the easy family , they are in the same ballpark; satcom options are making the difference in weight actually ( weird is it not ?) A friend of mine is flying a 2000S one of the first delivered, and no wonder why they do not sell much of them, in favor of the LXS. The 900 Exy is in all aspect a much more versatile aircraft, especially from short runways, and depending on destinations the ability to start engines without APU is a real advantage.
To me, the 2000 was and is the Phenom 100 of Dassault, nice but wrong design decision ( even they did not offer other choice to customers); so today, too much compromises on this airframe, good for USA, as usual...
To me, the 2000 was and is the Phenom 100 of Dassault, nice but wrong design decision ( even they did not offer other choice to customers); so today, too much compromises on this airframe, good for USA, as usual...
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Thanks.
Can you tell me more ?
Never heard about that one, thoughT they all just have air starters ?
BTW, were would one train ? The FSI center in LBG always struck me as filthy and not too good (did a C550 there many years ago) and to go to the States - as nice as it is to be there - I`d like to avoid for the hassle with the TSA sh@t).
Yours
h_d
too much compromises on this airframe
depending on destinations the ability to start engines without APU is a real advantage.
BTW, were would one train ? The FSI center in LBG always struck me as filthy and not too good (did a C550 there many years ago) and to go to the States - as nice as it is to be there - I`d like to avoid for the hassle with the TSA sh@t).
Yours
h_d
Last edited by His dudeness; 19th Apr 2015 at 09:21.
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yep can ferry two engines..
The 2000 has less performance than the 900 though it is a "newer" design. The total length of the aircraft is the same but the cabin is smaller :-) Now the wing of the LXS is finally ( nearly) the same as the one of the 900, but still behind ( just because V1=VR on the Three engines )
All the test bed of honeywell are going first on the 900 then the 2000.. Mind you Easy 3 will make sense only on the F5X. But all in all , talking Easy, the 900 has the maximum package working and certified.
My choice, all things being considered would be a 900EX classic second hand, cheap to buy, cheap to run, will get you anywhere. But i have to say, with hundreds of hours on Easy, the package is nice, as long as you know your way around, and the logic applied.
The 2000 has less performance than the 900 though it is a "newer" design. The total length of the aircraft is the same but the cabin is smaller :-) Now the wing of the LXS is finally ( nearly) the same as the one of the 900, but still behind ( just because V1=VR on the Three engines )
All the test bed of honeywell are going first on the 900 then the 2000.. Mind you Easy 3 will make sense only on the F5X. But all in all , talking Easy, the 900 has the maximum package working and certified.
My choice, all things being considered would be a 900EX classic second hand, cheap to buy, cheap to run, will get you anywhere. But i have to say, with hundreds of hours on Easy, the package is nice, as long as you know your way around, and the logic applied.