How did you get started?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How did you get started?
Hello Guys. You can see what this thread is all about above. My question is, how did you get started in the biz/executiv aviation business. I will tell you my thoughts and why I ask this question.
I am currently working as a FA for a big german carrier, since the chance of getting a job with an airline without any hours and type rating after graduating from the training is very hard at the moment, so i know what working as an airline FO looks like, or at least a little bit. I was always interested in getting a job as a FO in an executiv company even before I had a glimpse inside the daily life of the airline pilots. It's not boring at all, don't get me wrong, but it showed me that a different way of working as a pilot is very attractive for me as well.
But since, at least today, there is no job vacancy for low houred pilots without a type rating in the executiv/ambulance buisness, I was wondeirng about the different storys and ways how you got started. I mean there are dozens of various types of jets around, how did you decide?
I was always considering an executiv aviation career for myself, getting a type rating and looking for work on that type, maybe freelancing first. But its a tough decision on which type to choose and so on. I bet there are very interesting and fascinating storys out there. How it worked for one and it didn't for the other. And maybe some of us inexperienced, non rated guys like me, can get a clue how the business works.
At least it is a chance to widen the horizon for everyone on how each and everyone of us has tried his luck on the hunt for his career he dreamed of. Thank you very much in advance, I am already excited to hear how it went for you.
Best regards
I am currently working as a FA for a big german carrier, since the chance of getting a job with an airline without any hours and type rating after graduating from the training is very hard at the moment, so i know what working as an airline FO looks like, or at least a little bit. I was always interested in getting a job as a FO in an executiv company even before I had a glimpse inside the daily life of the airline pilots. It's not boring at all, don't get me wrong, but it showed me that a different way of working as a pilot is very attractive for me as well.
But since, at least today, there is no job vacancy for low houred pilots without a type rating in the executiv/ambulance buisness, I was wondeirng about the different storys and ways how you got started. I mean there are dozens of various types of jets around, how did you decide?
I was always considering an executiv aviation career for myself, getting a type rating and looking for work on that type, maybe freelancing first. But its a tough decision on which type to choose and so on. I bet there are very interesting and fascinating storys out there. How it worked for one and it didn't for the other. And maybe some of us inexperienced, non rated guys like me, can get a clue how the business works.
At least it is a chance to widen the horizon for everyone on how each and everyone of us has tried his luck on the hunt for his career he dreamed of. Thank you very much in advance, I am already excited to hear how it went for you.
Best regards
First, you get flying experience in any planes--instructing, pipeline patrol, bush.
Second, get some experience in King Airs.
Third, submit lots of resumes at operators.
Last, they hire you and send you to the type rating course, after which you get time in type.
You'll need an ATPL early in this route. Buying an type and trying to shortcut your way ahead is a no-no.
GF
Second, get some experience in King Airs.
Third, submit lots of resumes at operators.
Last, they hire you and send you to the type rating course, after which you get time in type.
You'll need an ATPL early in this route. Buying an type and trying to shortcut your way ahead is a no-no.
GF
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: on the move
Age: 54
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If I was you try and do some part time work as a FA on corp jets, the private jet world is all about networking /contacts.
Get your CPL done, try and instruct / para drop, you need to get hours up to have a chance in the corp.
True words from Galaxy, don't pay for a type, it's a waste of time/money, and it's frowned upon in the corporate world.
Good luck, it can be a tough road to get into the right seat of a biz jet. My road started in a hangar!
Get your CPL done, try and instruct / para drop, you need to get hours up to have a chance in the corp.
True words from Galaxy, don't pay for a type, it's a waste of time/money, and it's frowned upon in the corporate world.
Good luck, it can be a tough road to get into the right seat of a biz jet. My road started in a hangar!
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flying Mechanic,
I am going to have to disagree with the statement that buying a rating is frowned upon in the corporate aviation sector. Maybe some, but certainly not all.
I know of two UK operators that refuse to pay for ratings. One of them, a small size jet operator south of the M25 was recruiting for rated pilots (low hours were accepted). They would not entertain an application unless you went and got a rating beforehand.
And we should all know of the other well known one that does not even pay for type ratings for existing pilots to upgrade to another jet.
Galaxy flyer, and as for doing the GA route, well I've been doing that for the past 4 years and have single turbine PIC time. All the King Air operators in the UK, Europe and Africa (not tried Asia yet) want you to have a rating beforehand too. The USA is different with a totally different mindset and loads of GA progression possibilities.
So really, in some instances I would say that buying the right type may well be worth it; as some of my colleagues have found out to their surprise and delight!
mo
I am going to have to disagree with the statement that buying a rating is frowned upon in the corporate aviation sector. Maybe some, but certainly not all.
I know of two UK operators that refuse to pay for ratings. One of them, a small size jet operator south of the M25 was recruiting for rated pilots (low hours were accepted). They would not entertain an application unless you went and got a rating beforehand.
And we should all know of the other well known one that does not even pay for type ratings for existing pilots to upgrade to another jet.
Galaxy flyer, and as for doing the GA route, well I've been doing that for the past 4 years and have single turbine PIC time. All the King Air operators in the UK, Europe and Africa (not tried Asia yet) want you to have a rating beforehand too. The USA is different with a totally different mindset and loads of GA progression possibilities.
So really, in some instances I would say that buying the right type may well be worth it; as some of my colleagues have found out to their surprise and delight!
mo
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the different point of views we are getting here. You see, we are at the start of a controversial discussion here. Without bashing each others opinions but trying to find different ways it HAS worked for some in the past or maybe CAN work in the future or where to orient or learn from others experience.
I think indeed there is a big difference in Europe and the US. Especially the GA sector is to be mentioned here.
I think indeed there is a big difference in Europe and the US. Especially the GA sector is to be mentioned here.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: -
Posts: 1,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you were to suggest a plane to get a TR on for a low hour willing to start as freelance as wel, what type would you suggest?
Of course with regards to the European region.
I wish I had a Green Card
Of course with regards to the European region.
I wish I had a Green Card
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: RVSMLand
Age: 39
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I always wanted to fly Corporate, but knew that my chances were really low. Where i fly there's like 3 Large Bizjets, a handful of midsizes and light jets and 20 or so King Airs, so i guess i got really lucky this time.
But anyway...I did this... exactly this... can't find a better description.
Started doing pipeline and aerial survey, got rated in Kingairs C90, 200 and 350.
Then got this call that offered me the same rate the local airline F/O's get plus belts and whistles, and of course a seat in class for a C680+ rating, stamped the license and drove to the factory to pick it up.
That was with almost 1200TT, 10 hrs Jet time and a MCC cert. (That is not required in this part of the world, but helps).
I would have thought that this chance would have come much more later if ever.
But anyway...I did this... exactly this... can't find a better description.
First, you get flying experience in any planes--instructing, pipeline patrol, bush.
Second, get some experience in King Airs.
Last, they hire you and send you to the type rating course, after which you get time in type.
Second, get some experience in King Airs.
Last, they hire you and send you to the type rating course, after which you get time in type.
Then got this call that offered me the same rate the local airline F/O's get plus belts and whistles, and of course a seat in class for a C680+ rating, stamped the license and drove to the factory to pick it up.
That was with almost 1200TT, 10 hrs Jet time and a MCC cert. (That is not required in this part of the world, but helps).
I would have thought that this chance would have come much more later if ever.
Last edited by leondelfierro; 16th Aug 2014 at 03:30. Reason: Grammar
Join Date: May 2010
Location: europe
Age: 67
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I went the self improver route in times before "approved courses" were introduced as a replacement for hands on "experience." Once you have a CPL/IR under your belt you need to cold call or network, and preferably both.
Visit the places where biz jets hang out, find out who operates what and write and get to meet the crews. It isn't something that takes 5 mins to achieve, but if you want it hard enough you will keep going until an opportunity comes along.....then it's simply a case of grabbing it with both hands.
As for buying a type rating this a tricky question. If you are thinking of buying one in the "hope" of getting a job, I would think again. Years ago the C550 was the mainstay of charter operators and it was quite likely that a rating would potentially get you sat in the right seat for quite a few operators. Nowadays of course the regs have changed significantly, you need to tick a thousand boxes to get into anything on an AOC, and there is a wider selection of aircraft types being operated, so which type do you choose; CJ, Phenom, C550 etc etc? Choosing the right type rating to pay for is therefore much more hit and miss. Added to that is the ridiculous EASA requirement for the six landings you will need to fund in the airplane before you can even act as a crew-member.
Paying for a rating if a job is offered is quite a different matter though. Some diehards will tell you to avoid this as well, but the market is changing, margins are being squeezed and some operators do now expect this. This is your decision entirely and obviously it will be one that you make after looking at the employer, the contract and the costs involved. If the cost of the rating is taken directly from your future salary rather than you having to pay it all upfront, I'm sure even the diehards would not object to funding of this nature.
Most have us have been where you are now. Don't wish for time to speed up, just put more effort into the time you have available. Good luck.
Visit the places where biz jets hang out, find out who operates what and write and get to meet the crews. It isn't something that takes 5 mins to achieve, but if you want it hard enough you will keep going until an opportunity comes along.....then it's simply a case of grabbing it with both hands.
As for buying a type rating this a tricky question. If you are thinking of buying one in the "hope" of getting a job, I would think again. Years ago the C550 was the mainstay of charter operators and it was quite likely that a rating would potentially get you sat in the right seat for quite a few operators. Nowadays of course the regs have changed significantly, you need to tick a thousand boxes to get into anything on an AOC, and there is a wider selection of aircraft types being operated, so which type do you choose; CJ, Phenom, C550 etc etc? Choosing the right type rating to pay for is therefore much more hit and miss. Added to that is the ridiculous EASA requirement for the six landings you will need to fund in the airplane before you can even act as a crew-member.
Paying for a rating if a job is offered is quite a different matter though. Some diehards will tell you to avoid this as well, but the market is changing, margins are being squeezed and some operators do now expect this. This is your decision entirely and obviously it will be one that you make after looking at the employer, the contract and the costs involved. If the cost of the rating is taken directly from your future salary rather than you having to pay it all upfront, I'm sure even the diehards would not object to funding of this nature.
Most have us have been where you are now. Don't wish for time to speed up, just put more effort into the time you have available. Good luck.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: somewhere
Posts: 357
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would second deefer dog's post. However...
This can be a difficult task if you are not already airside. Many small airports (where bizjets from entry level to top notch hang out) have very tight security in place (i.e. Biggin Hill) so it might be difficult to get any closer than the car-park. 
Having said that, I got my first King Air job while instructing. Needless to say that day it was solid IMC, thus nothing better to do than chat up a transiting bizjet's crew...
Good luck
DK
Visit the places where biz jets hang out, find out who operates what and write and get to meet the crews. It isn't something that takes 5 mins to achieve, but if you want it hard enough you will keep going until an opportunity comes along.....then it's simply a case of grabbing it with both hands.
Having said that, I got my first King Air job while instructing. Needless to say that day it was solid IMC, thus nothing better to do than chat up a transiting bizjet's crew...
Good luck
DK
Biggin actually isn't too bad - you can go and sit in the cafe in the terminal where crews waiting for pax tend to hang around. It's actually not a bad place to network. I didn't get a job that way but when I did recently cross paths with some corporate guys, they remembered me and said "stay in touch".
A lot of it is sheer luck. One friend as an FI used to drink with a regular group in a near to airport pub, and one day the right chief pilot joined the group. A week or two later he had a job.
A lot of it is sheer luck. One friend as an FI used to drink with a regular group in a near to airport pub, and one day the right chief pilot joined the group. A week or two later he had a job.
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ?
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Trent,
Forget about self-funding. The market in euroland is about to change for the better. Just get flying. Any machine will do. At the same time, keep sending CVs. And do follow up by politely calling, visiting. If your application is of decent standard and you have some people skills, which as cabin crew I bet you have, a door will open. May take years though.
Plenty of friends that have done it that way.
All the best.
Forget about self-funding. The market in euroland is about to change for the better. Just get flying. Any machine will do. At the same time, keep sending CVs. And do follow up by politely calling, visiting. If your application is of decent standard and you have some people skills, which as cabin crew I bet you have, a door will open. May take years though.
Plenty of friends that have done it that way.
All the best.
