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Old 29th Jan 2013, 09:18   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Ferry Pilots from "Dengerous Flights" TV show on Discovery

Hey guys, could someone shed some light on this profession of delivering GA/ business planes around the world? I never knew these sort of delivery organizations even existed. Is it mainly a US thing or we have them in Europe also? How does one find a pilot job in such a business? Watching the show, it's extremely entertaining!

Am I right in saying their FAA licenses only allow them to fly "N" reg aircraft around the world?

Just curious. Replies and PMs welcome and would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 29th Jan 2013, 10:18   #2 (permalink)
 
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Happens all over the world. Oceanic ferry is NOT an entry level job for newbie cpl's. The licence must match the tail number (or at least a validation by that authority).

Last edited by PURPLE PITOT; 29th Jan 2013 at 10:19.
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Old 29th Jan 2013, 13:20   #3 (permalink)
 
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Yes I certainly never presumed that it was a career for newbie CPLs! So how do people end up working in these companies and what is the pay like? I'm assuming they get payed per hour?
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Old 29th Jan 2013, 14:55   #4 (permalink)
 
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Dye your hair ginger, eat a bit more than you should, abide only by rules, licencing requirements and regulations that are convenient (ignore the rest), ignore fuel calcs and headwinds, survive at least one deadstick landing and you are pretty much ready to start your own ferry company.



PS also have atrocious spelling

Last edited by Nigd3; 29th Jan 2013 at 14:59.
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Old 29th Jan 2013, 15:24   #5 (permalink)
 
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Surprised that this is apparently the first mention of this programme on PPRuNe. Thought it might have been embargoed by the Mods!
I too find the programme 'entertaining' and although almost certainly over dramatised for TV, having followed the unmentionable ginger one thread with interest (alarm?), what one can plainly see from this programme is the enormous pressure that is exerted to get the aircraft to intended destination. Businesses have to make profits but one doesn't like to see safety take second place. Well done to the pilots who stood up to 'The Boss' !!
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Old 29th Jan 2013, 15:57   #6 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Dye your hair ginger, eat a bit more than you should, abide only by rules, licencing requirements and regulations that are convenient (ignore the rest), ignore fuel calcs and headwinds, survive at least one deadstick landing and you are pretty much ready to start your own ferry company.
Don't forget to poke yourself in the eye as well!

Anyone know what's happened to the genge fellow?
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Old 29th Jan 2013, 15:59   #7 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Dye your hair ginger, eat a bit more than you should, abide only by rules, licencing requirements and regulations that are convenient (ignore the rest), ignore fuel calcs and headwinds, survive at least one deadstick landing and you are pretty much ready to start your own ferry company


PS also have atrocious spelling
Perfect! Im fyling the neccessary paperwork as we speek!
Quote:
Surprised that this is apparently the first mention of this programme on PPRuNe. Thought it might have been embargoed by the Mods!
I too find the programme 'entertaining' and although almost certainly over dramatised for TV, having followed the unmentionable ginger one thread with interest (alarm?), what one can plainly see from this programme is the enormous pressure that is exerted to get the aircraft to intended destination. Businesses have to make profits but one doesn't like to see safety take second place. Well done to the pilots who stood up to 'The Boss' !!
Whilst I can see it would be an extremely stressful job, it looks like a proper, proper adventure. Seems a hell of a lot more challenging and interesting than the average jet jockey. Not for everyone of course but it certainly sparked my interest.

I searched the web for aircraft ferry services but none of them state anything about pilot recruitment. How do these fellas get their jobs? Is it similar to corporate aviation in that one would end up there through networking?

And whats more interesting is how much, and what sort of experience do these companies require from pilots? Presumably thousands of hours flying smaller props?
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Old 29th Jan 2013, 20:51   #8 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Am I right in saying their FAA licenses only allow them to fly "N" reg aircraft around the world?
No, having FAA pilot certification does not limit one to ferrying only "N" reg aircraft. Validations are received frequently for operating aircraft on other national registries.
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Old 29th Jan 2013, 22:08   #9 (permalink)
 
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Deadliest Flights

Whilst I have the utmost respect for the pilots who stand up to the owner of the company, 'Cory' whatever, you would not get me anywhere near that joker who obviously would take risks flying from A to B in pursuit of a pay cheque. What professional would sit on the leading edge of a wing whilst a plane is taxying!! Hit a pothole or brake suddenly and off you go into the prop. W---er.
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Old 29th Jan 2013, 22:53   #10 (permalink)
 
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D6, agreed. I believe he comes from the same school as the ginger one who shall not be mentioned!
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 11:56   #11 (permalink)
 
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D6

Are the missing letters of the last word "eav" ???

Last edited by Nigd3; 30th Jan 2013 at 11:57.
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 12:41   #12 (permalink)
 
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I've seen plenty of WW2 films with mechanics sitting on the wings and guiding the pilot during taxi. I can not see how a pot hole (on a paved taxiway?) would cause someone to fly 6 feet forward and to the side into a propeller. I am not promoting this behavior but I would like a better explanation that a pot hole.

Regardless, I will ask my questions again:

How do these fellas get their jobs? Is it similar to corporate aviation in that one would end up there through networking?

And whats more interesting is how much, and what sort of experience do these companies require from pilots? Presumably thousands of hours flying smaller props?
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 22:59   #13 (permalink)
 
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From what I have seen of the series, "Cory" hires pilots who are much more experienced than himself to carry out these deliveries on his behalf. (Haven't we heard this somewhere before?) Then he sometimes takes the right hand seat and puts pressure on them to take risks about which they are not happy. I suppose it takes a special kind of character to stand up to this pressure. After all, given that the job entails flying distances that a greater than those for which the aircraft are normally expected to achieve, you appear to be given the choices of endangering a) your job or b) your life.
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Old 30th Jan 2013, 23:44   #14 (permalink)
 
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That special kind of character is sometimes referred to as "a captain", regardless of the experience and grade of licence held.
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Old 31st Jan 2013, 21:23   #15 (permalink)
 
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PP, touche'
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Old 31st Jan 2013, 21:54   #16 (permalink)
 
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Yup,
been watching this program too.

Last episode, the wonder-pilot chap who was a military test pilot, air racer etc etc etc....with that weird looking douche bag in the dodgy coat bollocked up the simple arrival in to BIRK ( and also managed to miss set altimeter and were 1000' low. !!! ) Blamed fatigue....erm ,only flown up from the south coast of UK for crying out loud

Oh dear

...."oh say can you see......"
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Old 1st Feb 2013, 07:16   #17 (permalink)
 
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Still no answer to the original question ?
Is there a rule of thumb minimum for ferry pilot ?
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Old 1st Feb 2013, 07:39   #18 (permalink)
 
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To the OP, I'm no expert on it, but have done research into it;

From what I have been told, there is no set rule for getting into this business. Besides the need for a CPL and IR! Obviously the more experience you have in a variety of aircraft the better, especially from an insurance point of view. I suspect most ferry companies would want you to have serious PIC time to join them, but that's not always the hard and fast rule. (Contact them and find out, if they like your face, you could get in!)

You can ferry anything from a Cessna 150 up to a 747 if you are experienced and appropriately rated in the aircraft. Ideally, you also need to be able to hold more than one license or be able to obtain a validation from some countries you may not hold a license for.

The key thing to consider before getting into ferry piloting is to make contacts. Like any form of small aviation business, its who you know that would lead you to a job. And once you are known to be professional, reliable, safe and a good person, you'll progress even further.

If you want to set up on your own as a freelance business, ontop of the basic business skills and preparation associated with any self employed business, you will still need some solid aviation contacts to supply you with aircraft to ferry (e.g aircraft sales brokers) or help you fly the aircraft on each ferry (other contract pilots).

Or if you are good at selling, you could try selling the aircraft you end up ferrying. Not simple or easy, but doable.

You also need to consider the risks associated with this type of flying, which is very challenging. You may sometimes fly over inhospitable places, or land in places with poor national security. The aircraft can be factory new or in second hand condition with suspect maintenance issues. You will be doing business with people you may not have met face to face, who could be pretty dodgy characters. You may get arrested or detained for simply not following local protocols or due to a communication error. Some places are well set up for aviation, while others are bare bone minimum when it comes to competence. You are the flight planner, inflight trouble shooter mechanic, pilot, impromptu diplomat and business man all at the same time!

As for the amount of experience, it all depends on what you want to ferry. The bigger the iron, the more experience you'll need to satisfy insurance requirements.

Also, its not normally a regular flying gig that pays a large amount. Some people ferry once every few days, some once a month, others once a year! It depends on how much you want to do it and which aircraft owners or sales brokers you know, that can give you a steady supply of work. The more you hustle, the more you fly.

Watching "Dangerous flights" is a good basic window into what you can expect.

Hope this helps. Like I said, I'm no expert, but did some research into it a while ago.


Last edited by Jay_solo; 1st Feb 2013 at 08:03.
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Old 1st Feb 2013, 12:03   #19 (permalink)
 
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Thanks Jay

I would be very keen on giving it a shot one day. For now I need to concentrate on how the heck I'm gonna pay for the fATPL

Hopefully as soon as I get into the industry I will start making contacts and we'll see where we go from there.

Thanks for the info though. it all sounds very interesting... like any kind of flying usually.
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Old 1st Feb 2013, 12:08   #20 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Is there a rule of thumb minimum for ferry pilot ?
Yes, the insurers will decide that - unless you are an overweight, ginger haired lying thief, in which case you simply invent your experience and qualifications.

BTW no news regarding Sky Ferry of late. Is he still at large?
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