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Biz Jets, Ag Flying, GA etc. The place for discussion of issues related to corporate, Ag and GA aviation. If you're a professional pilot and don't fly for the airlines then try here.


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Old 21st Dec 2012, 23:10   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: ML
Age: 27
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Chasing the Bizjet dream

Hi all,

I'm looking to to get into Corporate Aviation and I understand a hell of a lot of it is who you know and being in the right place at the right time.

However I was hoping some of you out there in the Corporate World may be able to shed some light on the industry. Particularly the state of the industry around the world in places like the US, Asia, the UAE and Australia. And where would be best to aim to get into the Bizjet world?

Happy for both public replies and PMs and any further info you may have that I may have forgotten to address.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and all that jazz!!
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 11:55   #2 (permalink)

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How much experience do you have?
Licences?
Family?
Nationality? Passport(s)?
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 12:43   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
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Get yourself a jet job first, probably easier to get an airline job, then make the move to corp. yes corporate is more who you know, so start making contacts. I always always advise, go and knock on doors, it works.
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Old 22nd Dec 2012, 15:32   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Corporate aviation is very network-centric. Ability to fly the airplane is one thing, personality is just as important. If you are a social door knob, you will not be asked to go along.

The previous recommendation to fly airline first is good as it provides good training, structure, stability and time building. If you walk in the corporate door with no experience, your success will probably be a result of knowing someone or being very lucky.

Good luck - Bingo
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Old 27th Dec 2012, 12:40   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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2 things will be a massive help.

1) networking
2) being a "good egg"

Since getting my first corp job a few years ago (which was done by networking and a LOT of luck), I've found myself getting plenty of offers. I'm quite happy to admit I'm happy in a social environment, I seem to be able to easily get on with people and I make friends easily. My "social skills" have been as much of an advantage as my "flying skills" and I often get really kind feedback about how much people enjoy flying with me, both for my ability and my "cruise chat".

I've got less than 2,000 hours and I'm turning down jobs at the moment, as none have been the right move. Those job offers have ALL come about as a result of people saying good things about me.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 08:29   #6 (permalink)
 
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Any flying jobs requires the skils we all learnt during training. I do not see there is any fundamental difference between leaving ATP training and going to the airlines or securing a biz jet job and there are many out of the major flight schools who have done both.

The latter option does require a bit more luck and knowing people in the right place. It is safe to take it for granted that you can fly a plane so a biz jet operator is looking for someone who is presentable, discreet, polite, flexible and generally prepared to get their hands dirty and muck in and not be a complete Norman down route.

Its a great job but don't expect airline levels of renumeration...

Last edited by Bucket; 29th Dec 2012 at 08:30.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 14:55   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
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Quote:
Its a great job but don't expect airline levels of renumeration...
Why not?

Mutt
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 16:50   #8 (permalink)
 
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Shshsh, Mutt!
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 17:59   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2011
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As a proportion of the jobs, I suspect the financial terms (especially given the amount of work we end up doing) are substantially better than the airlines.
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 10:23   #10 (permalink)
 
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The airline boys have totally their back yard and are running to bizjets to escape?
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 11:11   #11 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: uk
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After 5 years in corporate, I actually ran to the airlines to get away from it. Packages can be very good but depends heavily on who you fly for and of course what you're flying. As stated above, network and speak to lots of people. Best of luck.
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 13:18   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Its a great job but don't expect airline levels of renumeration...
Right, I would hate to be underpaid like some airliners are....
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 16:01   #13 (permalink)
 
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Well 2 LOW, I guess we won't have to hold our collective breath waiting for you to join our ranks then. Now that could be a blessing in dsiguise. You must be another self opinionated individual that does not make him (or her) self aware of the current safety statistics. First post? nice one. Of course, all the airlines are top quality offering top jobs with top pay
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 18:44   #14 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Blighty
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Quote:
Its a great job but don't expect airline levels of renumeration...
I take home quite a bit more than friends of mine who work in the airlines, folks with similar experience levels to me. As has been said it all depends on who you work for though.
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Old 1st Jan 2013, 09:10   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Thanks for all the replies and advice, hugely appreciated!!

Just for a bit of background on myself I have an Australian passport, CPL, MECIR and currently studying my final ATPL exam however I only finished my flight training 12 months ago so still only low houred.

However I have already started meeting people and begun to build a network as at this stage of my career it's about as much that I am aware of that I can do to try and get a foot in the door within the corporate sector.

From what I have come across it seems to be quite an enclosed area of the industry.
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Old 1st Jan 2013, 10:31   #16 (permalink)
 
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Especially in Oz.
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Old 1st Jan 2013, 11:07   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Biggles

It is a very Clicky section of aviation and the pilots are very protective of their positions.

Low hours??? The other problem you may encounter is insurance requirements.

Crazy because how does a low time pilot get the turbine hours to meet the insurance requirements if no one will insure that pilot in the first place?

Very often those insurance requirements are encouraged by the Pilot/Operator for self protectionism.

I once flew a Seneca Five twin where a number of suitable pilots were used under the control of a guy operating and managing the aircraft.
He did not want some young guy with 100 hrs multi time poaching the aircraft at half the pilot rates so fixed a 500 hr multi requirement under the veil of reducing insurance costs for the owner Great for us with more than 500 hrs multi but ????

As others have said this sector of aviation is more about networking and getting someone to like you enough that they take you on board.
You also have to make sure you are available and reliable.

Cannot fly because the girlfriend has put her foot down and demanded the weekend as happened with one young pilot I know of means your gone!!!

Pace

Last edited by Pace; 1st Jan 2013 at 11:11.
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Old 1st Jan 2013, 11:20   #18 (permalink)

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Biggles, it's very rare in Oz for a low houred pilot to get a jet job - especially in such a small industry like bizjets.
Most head out "up North" to get some hours and more importantly, experience before moving to twins and turbines. Crucial for networking too.
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Old 1st Jan 2013, 12:25   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: UK Midlands
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Ive done both. My observations are, do not overlook the following :
- theres more tact and forlock tugging required in corporate , which sometimes undermines the authority of the capt
- whilst some private owned aircraft offer massive salaries you are just a pawn at the mercy of the owner/ board
- roster ? No, expect permanent standby in some outfits
- there are some right nutcase shoulder chipped weirdos in corporate who wouldnt last in airlines

All things being equal, its the airlines for me.
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Old 1st Jan 2013, 13:28   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
- there are some right nutcase shoulder chipped weirdos in corporate who wouldnt last in airlines
That has to work both ways...
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