CJ Differences training vs costs
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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CJ Differences training vs costs
Hi Folks,
If a JAA CJ1 rating was available in the States at a competative rate and I ultimately
needed a JAA CJ2 rating that was only available in uk/europe(Flight safety only provide CJ2 training this side of the Atlantic) at much greater expense, would it not be worth doing a CJ1 rating in the US and then upgrade with CJ2 differences if this would significantly cost less than doing a CJ2 rating straight off in Europe?
Or am I completely missing something/ ie a catch somewhere?
Your thoughts much appreciated.
BW
If a JAA CJ1 rating was available in the States at a competative rate and I ultimately
needed a JAA CJ2 rating that was only available in uk/europe(Flight safety only provide CJ2 training this side of the Atlantic) at much greater expense, would it not be worth doing a CJ1 rating in the US and then upgrade with CJ2 differences if this would significantly cost less than doing a CJ2 rating straight off in Europe?
Or am I completely missing something/ ie a catch somewhere?
Your thoughts much appreciated.
BW
Join Date: Mar 2007
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I am not sure you need to take a difference course. The CJ1,CJ2,CJ2+ and CJ3 (not sure about the CJ4) are all covered by the C525 attachement.
Is it maybe a request from your CAA?
Correct me if I am wrong.
Happy landings!
Is it maybe a request from your CAA?
Correct me if I am wrong.
Happy landings!
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Dareen,
There is no catch, and yes, it is usually cheaper to do a rating in the USA than in Europe. The biggest cost advantage for going to the USA is often on the hotel and living expenses; the biggest disadvatange is the extra travelling time. Add to that a competitive exchange rate, and I have almost always ended up going to the USA for my ratings and renewals.
As Flugzeug says, they are the same type rating, and apart from a handful of differences the CJ1 and the CJ2 are exactly the same to fly. (Obviously all the magic numbers of power settings, speeds and so on are different, but if you are just starting out you'll not have memorised them yet anyway, and they are in the same place in the book whichever model you are sitting in!).
If you have only flown the CJ1, a couple of hours with the books would get you into a CJ2.
Beware however that the "plus" versions (CJ1+, CJ2+ and confusingly, CJ3) all have different avionics and FMS setups to the non-plus (CJ1 and CJ2) versions. It is very unlikely that you would just "jump in and go" in one of those, unless you have prior experience with the Collins FMS operating logic - you would probably need an avionics differences course (I did).
There is no catch, and yes, it is usually cheaper to do a rating in the USA than in Europe. The biggest cost advantage for going to the USA is often on the hotel and living expenses; the biggest disadvatange is the extra travelling time. Add to that a competitive exchange rate, and I have almost always ended up going to the USA for my ratings and renewals.
As Flugzeug says, they are the same type rating, and apart from a handful of differences the CJ1 and the CJ2 are exactly the same to fly. (Obviously all the magic numbers of power settings, speeds and so on are different, but if you are just starting out you'll not have memorised them yet anyway, and they are in the same place in the book whichever model you are sitting in!).
If you have only flown the CJ1, a couple of hours with the books would get you into a CJ2.
Beware however that the "plus" versions (CJ1+, CJ2+ and confusingly, CJ3) all have different avionics and FMS setups to the non-plus (CJ1 and CJ2) versions. It is very unlikely that you would just "jump in and go" in one of those, unless you have prior experience with the Collins FMS operating logic - you would probably need an avionics differences course (I did).
I agree with CJ driver: The CJ1+, CJ2+ and CJ3 avionics and FMS (and FADEC) need some structured study and familiarisation flights or sim practice if you're coming from a CJ1 or CJ2.
I would also add that the same applies if you're moving from a CJ1 or CJ2 to a CJ 'classic'. The EFIS, nav displays and FMS on the 'classic' are quite different.
If you're definitely going to fly only the CJ2, I agree that a CJ1 course followed by differences training on the CJ2 would be fine. Watch out for the nose gear 'towing lock' which only exists on the CJ2. Other marks don't have it (which probably indicates that it wasn't such a great idea)!
Don't know much about the CJ4, except that it does share a common type rating with the other CJs.
Whichever training route you take, when you get your C525 class rating you will be licensed on all marks (as flugzeug says), but; be careful before jumping into any individual CJ, even if it's a mark with which you are familiar. Some of the older ones have been upgraded with newer FMS and radio stacks. I flew a 'classic' recently that had the original Honeywell as FMS 1 and also had two Garmin 530s which were FMS 2 and FMS 3. The 'switchery' in order to be sure which FMS was driving the LNAV was interesting!
Some 'classics' have the UNS-1 FMS and some have extra 'legacy' GPS units like Magellan.
Bottom line: Find out in advance what kit is fitted in your particular model and learn as much as you can about it. If you will fly several different ones (as I do) you have to be flexible and back things up with raw data as far as possible while you remember how this particular one works!
I would also add that the same applies if you're moving from a CJ1 or CJ2 to a CJ 'classic'. The EFIS, nav displays and FMS on the 'classic' are quite different.
If you're definitely going to fly only the CJ2, I agree that a CJ1 course followed by differences training on the CJ2 would be fine. Watch out for the nose gear 'towing lock' which only exists on the CJ2. Other marks don't have it (which probably indicates that it wasn't such a great idea)!
Don't know much about the CJ4, except that it does share a common type rating with the other CJs.
Whichever training route you take, when you get your C525 class rating you will be licensed on all marks (as flugzeug says), but; be careful before jumping into any individual CJ, even if it's a mark with which you are familiar. Some of the older ones have been upgraded with newer FMS and radio stacks. I flew a 'classic' recently that had the original Honeywell as FMS 1 and also had two Garmin 530s which were FMS 2 and FMS 3. The 'switchery' in order to be sure which FMS was driving the LNAV was interesting!
Some 'classics' have the UNS-1 FMS and some have extra 'legacy' GPS units like Magellan.
Bottom line: Find out in advance what kit is fitted in your particular model and learn as much as you can about it. If you will fly several different ones (as I do) you have to be flexible and back things up with raw data as far as possible while you remember how this particular one works!
