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Old 11th Jul 2010, 14:56   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Doghouse
Posts: 11
Deer Jet/Capital Airlines

Hi All

Does anyone have any info on Deer Jet/Capital Airlines?

Recruitment through Brookfield, UK. Name change as well as Terms and Conditions since September 2009. Believe they are buying a 604 and looking for crew?

Thanks
AtthePNR is offline   Reply
Old 18th Nov 2010, 00:46   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: My arse crack
Posts: 43
Anyone else got any info on these guys?

Apparently Capts USD 10K-11K/Month for Global/Gulfstream and FOs USD 4K-5K/Month. 9 weeks on 4 weeks off.
Capt Under Pants is offline   Reply
Old 18th Nov 2010, 08:05   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: World citizen
Posts: 194
For info this is not a rotation contract
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Old 18th Nov 2010, 14:27   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: france
Posts: 4
no secret all is here

Here we are guys...
I would say better than nothing but these T&C are on my opinion lower than it should be for such an expat contract...
What's your opinion ??????

/////////////////////////////////////

TERMS

CONTRACT DURATION: Minimum 3 years renewable

For Pilots receiving differences training or other type-rating training, the contract term will be 5 years.

BASE: Beijing

BLOCK HOURS: 500 block hours per service year.

WORKING PATTERN 9 weeks on /4 weeks off scheduling. No more paid annual leave or other holidays.

GROUND TRANSPORT Provided by the Airline

ON-DUTY FLIGHT Provided

ACCOMMODATION 2 weeks hotel accommodation provided by the Airline for the first two weeks.

Away from base accommodation provided.
Single rooms for pilots.

TICKETS 2 confirmed round trip international or domestic economy class tickets within Hainan Airline network provided annually.

Travel expenses for starting and ending contract provided / reimbursed.

OTHER Uniform, ID card, manual and other on duty equipment is provided by the airline.

INSURANCE Employers liability insurance provided.
Accident insurance, and commercial health insurance provided by the Airline.

ANNUAL TRAINING AND CHECK Provided by the Airlines.
Accommodation, food and travel allowance during training provided.

SALARY & BONUS All salary and bonus below are after tax.
Tax is paid by the Airline in China.

The annual bonuses will be subject to pilots completing the 500 required block hours.

US$100 overtime fee paid for hours flown over 500 annually.






Position Salary US$ (monthly) Bonus
US$
(Annually)






GV/450/550
G650


Captains


11000

First year
5000

Second year
15000

From the third year onwards
20000


First Officers


5000

First year
2000

Second year
4000

From the third year onwards
8000





Falcon7X
Global5000


Captains


10000

First year
5000

Second year
15000

From the third year onwards
20000


First Officers


4000

First year
2000

Second year
4000

From the third year onwards
8000





G250
CL604/605
Hawker4000


Captains


9000

First year
5000

Second year
15000

From the third year onwards
20000


First Officers


3500

First year
2000

Second year
4000

From the third year onwards
8000

▲There will be a transition period after pilots join the Airline, which involves issuance of relevant documents & permits, company training, checks, assignment of Captain and First Officer following evaluation. This period can last from 1 to 6 months depend on how soon pilots can complete training and evaluation.

▲For the initial 3 months, pilotís monthly salary will be 60% of full salary, if the training lasts further 3 months, monthly salary will be 70% of full salary.

TYPE-RATING TRAINING Pilots are required to pay a percentage of the training fee up front which will be fully refunded. 20% of payment made by pilots will be paid back by the Airline after each of the 5 service years.

▲New Captain will need to fly 25 hours with instructor, and then accumulate 100 hours before being evaluated to become a Captain. For the initial 3 months, pilots monthly salary will be 60% of full salary, for the following 3 months, monthly salary will be 70% of full salary
davidof is offline   Reply
Old 19th Nov 2010, 10:05   #5 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: On the move.
Posts: 30
New Capital Airlines

Although not advertised, the upper age limit is 55 years. I'm not sure if this is a CAAC limitation or a recruiters restriction. Anyone Know?
Cheers!
Tempilot
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Old 19th Jan 2011, 06:10   #6 (permalink)

 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 11
Deer Air Update

If you go through Brookfield, they "change" the terms halfway through to 5 days off a month, and 1 ticket per year, 30 days off per year, NO ROTATION. They then turn around and advertise to our fellow pilots out there the 9weeks/4week schedule, I can only assume, to "reel in" new pilot pool in which to choose from..(then 'announce' later to those pilots, that capital has changed their terms, etc. etc.)

If you don't have the type rating, the pay is fair (as advertise, but no per diem), but if you have the type, it's lower then industry standards.

Medical and ATPL test are the most difficult hurdles.

PM me if you have further questions. I am awaiting results from my screening, passed the ATPL barely (and I studied for at least a month).

If i get hired, I will repost here and it's in your interest to not have a broker (I am speaking only about the BIZJET side of Deer Air/Capital Airlines, NOT the commercial Airbus side), but to be referred by pilots from within...so I can connect you directly. Stay tuned.

-rm
rawmilk is offline   Reply
Old 19th Jan 2011, 17:50   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Near the sun
Posts: 804
[QUOTE]If you go through Brookfield, they "change" the terms halfway through to 5 days off a month, and 1 ticket per year, 30 days off per year, NO ROTATION. They then turn around and advertise to our fellow pilots out there the 9weeks/4week schedule, I can only assume, to "reel in" new pilot pool in which to choose from..(then 'announce' later to those pilots, that capital has changed their terms, etc. etc.)/QUOTE]


Excatly what happened. Said no. Then again even though I am not rated, I found the salary quite low. Indeed you have to finance 20% of it.
AMEX is offline   Reply
Old 20th Jan 2011, 05:21   #8 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Sometimes even home...
Posts: 114
For an expatriate non-rotating contract I also find the T's & C's a bit low.

Also, I know that there aren't too many available pilots for 7X or Global on the market and still they are paying less for those types that f.ex. G450?
Good for the Gulfstream guys, but what would be the reason?

Part of the scheduled airline and they provide annual ticket in ECONOMY for the captains within their own network??? C'mon.
Like someone already said, surely better than nothing, but overall, below the standard where it should be.
Aslak is offline   Reply
Old 20th Jan 2011, 08:28   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Only upon request
Posts: 753
Those T&Cs seem a bit low but I understand this is an operator which can choose pilots holding any ICAO/FAA licenses...
Think about our US friends only: how many are rated on those types (except the 7X though) and are still desperate to secure a full time contract?

I would say that for an European it's a bit low but this has also to do with the USD value.
FLEXJET is offline   Reply
Old 20th Jan 2011, 08:29   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Isle of Man
Posts: 80
IMHO the Standard is set by no other than yours truly, the 'lower' we go the lower the standards & vice versa.....
skylog is offline   Reply
Old 20th Jan 2011, 09:54   #11 (permalink)

 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 11
re: Terms correction for AMEX

Just fyi...it's not 20% the non-rated pilot has to finance up front, it is $18,000 USD for CL605, Global 5000, Hawker 4000, and $20,000 USD for the G550 and Falcon 7X.

Being that the type rating through a broker, can go for around 37K for the G550, and 47K for the 7X and mid thirties for the rest, you pay more like 40-60% of the cost of the type rating up front.

It isn't about the money. It's about incentive for you to stay and not leave AFTER you start working for them, and apparantly, they think this will help keep you there, by paying you back 20% of what you put up front, each year you stay, until fully paid back after 5 years.

Those are the facts on the offer. Now, whether they change or not once you are actually hired, that is another story (or something is re-negotiated before signing). It's China you, anything is possible.

One more thing, if one goes through Brookfield, which was not revealed to me until after I arrived for interview, is that the pilot gets paid through Brookfield, not through the company, which is a bit foreign to me (especially for a 5 year contract).

Hope this info helps those in question.

Cheers
RM
rawmilk is offline   Reply
Old 20th Jan 2011, 14:30   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Near the sun
Posts: 804
Indeed rawmilk, I had made the mistake you mentioned.
It gave the opportunity to re read the offer from Brookfield and more specifically the bit about the sim ride you ll have to do for the selection.
Bearing in mind you first go to China for the initial part of the selection then if successful, you are "invited" to go for the sim...

I quote
Quote:
For the SIM test trip to UAE or the US, candidates will need to purchase their own tickets to get to the test location. The Airline will reimburse for candidates who can successfully pass the SIM check. The Airline will provide the following daily allowance for up to 3 days stay in the US or UAE.
Not that I had planned to fail but found the deal a bit odd. In fact a bit off.

I hear what you are saying Flexjet but in my case I would aim at a GV job as I believe it tend to be at the top end of the market. What Brookfield/Capital have on offer strikes me more as a possibility for people who have little choice. In fact instead of top end, the offer is rather bottom end for such a type.

I guess the job market is picking up but there are still too many unemployed. Things are changing though...
AMEX is offline   Reply
Old 21st Jan 2011, 07:22   #13 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 38
FWIW these same jobs now seem to be up by Pegasus, with 300 in type and currency required. The response I got from Brookfield was "not qualified" so either the type rating program is gone or they don't regard me as qualifying for it, they didn't say which.
capt_j is offline   Reply
Old 21st Jan 2011, 08:14   #14 (permalink)

 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 11
Capt. J and AMEX

Capt J, I am surprised brookfield turned you down. Almost all of the pilots interviewing had no type ratings, but did have PIC turbine experience in "make" aircraft such as Hawker, Bombardier, and Falcon. Only 1 had time in GV, currently typed, and he didn't pass the medical, go figure.
Most had over 5000 TT.

You are correct AMEX, the deal is at the low end of the scale, which is why they have the option of new type rating "5 year contract" option... the "bonus" also changed to 10K per year for Capt. and 5K for F.O.'s However, almost all the F.O.'s will be Chinese. I too, found it a bit odd about having the pilots pay their way to the Sim test, and reimbursed after a pass. However, in light of understanding their reasoning after getting to Beijing, it made sense. Basically, the company had a bad experience with a couple pilots coming over getting hired, then leaving after just 6 months or earlier, complaining about few things, etc. Ie. A few of the Chinese Captains had reportedly smoked in the cockpit, which the foreigners' (us) didn't like, rightly so. So, my take is, though they may seem like a cheap company, not taking care of their pilots, on the contrary, money is not an issue and they do take care of the pilots (best hotels, and all food included on the road instead of per diem), they just want to make sure the pilots really want to make the effort to be there and not leave later...
my two cents worth anyways
-RM
rawmilk is offline   Reply
Old 21st Jan 2011, 13:11   #15 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Near the sun
Posts: 804
Thanks rawmilk.

I guess it is their train set so they do what they like. Down to the potential candidate to accept it or not.



Take care
AMEX is offline   Reply
Old 9th Feb 2011, 19:00   #16 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Russia
Posts: 52
Does anybody have any contact info for these guys? Are they hiring F/O's type rated and current on the 604/605? Let me know. Cheers!
AriGold is offline   Reply
Old 13th Apr 2011, 13:11   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Moon
Posts: 233
Stay away from Beijing Capital Airlines !!!!!!! Attention !!!!!!

Stay away from this Company !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's like a circus ! They change mind every 8 hours................. . Don't go to Beijing for screening !! It's just BLA BLA BLA BLA..... Don't waste your money and time !!!!!! They are not able to deal with people !!!!
ginopino is offline   Reply
Old 14th Apr 2011, 01:33   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: MCO (occasionally)
Posts: 333
I'm curious about a few things,

Did you actually interview?
If so, in the interview, what did they ask, and what did they offer you?
If you don't mind, are you typed? How many hours in the aircraft you interviewed for.

Thanks

FR
FrankR is offline   Reply
Old 14th Apr 2011, 20:27   #19 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: A Marriott somewhere
Posts: 212
Pay

Anyone that accepts a job flying a G550 in China for the money these guys are offering needs to have their heads examined. If you can afford a G550 you can afford to pay your people enough to be happy and stay in the job because they like where they are.

I pay more than these guys for a 30 on/30 off rotation with my guys. Strangely enough I haven't had anybody leave yet....................
DA50driver is offline   Reply
Old 25th Jun 2011, 12:43   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Earth
Posts: 4
Hired by Deer jet

Rawmilk, so what was the outcome, did you get hired or not?
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