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Just read the article in Flight International about Banana Republic....interesting. I don't think it is smart slagging off the established competition in the press, it looks cheap. And, if your only selling point is espresso coffee and Blackberry connectivity you better be sure they work all the time. In my experience the cabin items are the first things to fail.
I'm going to watch with interest, I think they may encourage us all to improve our onboard services. I will, however, never work for them...I know JB and DM all too well.
Last edited by Capt Crash : 7th October 2008 at 15:14.
You write as if Netjets have the monopoly on fractional ops in Europe, which they don't.
I think you'll find that there are enough disaffected ex-NJE owners not to mention others who can negotiate better deals to ensure enough work for a few of the right companies.
As for Flexjet haven't you heard? They're planning a comeback (this week's Flight International)
I will go to WH Smiths tomorrow and have a read, I'm too cheap to buy a copy! As I said, the next few years will be fun to watch.
I heard that JB used to tell anyone who would listen that his IQ was 163. He was soon know as 10 (the sum of 163) but, he couldn't work out why he was called 10 all of a sudden.
Edit: Just read the article about Flexjet...interesting. I think Mr Reid is a little more media savvy than JB.
"Fred Reid, the recently appointed president of Flexjet and Skyjet USA....says Europe now has a good appetite for fractional ownership and applauds NetJets for "laying the groundwork" and sticking with its programme - introduced in 1996 - at huge expense and in the face of overwhelming industry and consumer scepticism."
I think you'll find that there are enough disaffected ex-NJE owners not to mention others who can negotiate better deals to ensure enough work for a few of the right companies.
Enough to fill one hunderd aircraft... the magical number you need to start to make a profit.... (and this was before Flexjet got in again for a few years...)
Jet Republic, in order to be successfull, will have to be renamed.
Think about Obama winning, for example.
By the way, my username is for sale (and the Learjet 60XR is a very good choice).
Enough to fill one hunderd aircraft... the magical number you need to start to make a profit.... (and this was before Flexjet got in again for a few years...)
Europe wide? I'd say there are easily enough people with the money to buy 'proper' shares who will not, for one reason or another, buy from Netjets. The trick of course would be bringing them all together under one umbrella. I would also query your number of 100. Fractional can and does work on a much smaller scale if the local conditions are right and any buyer that goes elsewhere is a sale lost.
Sure, Jet Republic's Lear fleet is hampered by performance and up/downgrade issues but for the owner who doesn't need to go to Samedan or New York you can bet they'll be cheaper. I can think of a number of NJE owners who fit that profile and it would be foolish to disregard that. Just remember who Republic's management team are. How much insider information on Netjets do they hold? You think people haven't raided the G drive before they left? What's a list of owners and their assets worth do you think?
Netjets blind spot has always been arrogance. It comes across in the way they treat their vendors (get the fbo staff onside for example and find out what the really think of NJE) and while it won't bring the company crashing down it has and will cost them business. Relatively little here and there but no company should be allowing that to happen.
Im shure that Jet Republis and Flexjet are related. Maybe Flexjet will use Jet Republic as a separate sponge to pick up clients and in a few (3-4) years if certain targets are met, Flexjet would but Jet Republic foe a pre-agreed sum and double, triple its size overnight?
I guess the "confidentiality" clauses in the Net Jets contracts didn't apply much to some of the Jet Republic guys? I wonder if Net Jets is looking into it?
It's going to be hard for them in the early days, they don't get an aircraft until this time next year, and in the meantime have 'come to an arrangement' with Tag etc. I would have thought that if Banana Republic are subbing the work out to Tag, that the Tag sales guys will be trying to muscle in, i know thats what i'd do!!! VERY expensive way of doing it by the way.
No-one has picked up the response time yet 24 hours and 48 hours outside the European arena. NJE are 10 hours at the moment and finding that because a lot of aircraft are sat around in position with the crews on hot spare, they can fire up and go.
No matter how good the coffee is your going to have to be a VERY good salesman to bag an owner who that's happened to, and I am seeing it happen to more and more owners.
P.S Does the new nickname mean JB is Bananaman? Or would that be Bananasmeagel
Netjets blind spot has always been arrogance. It comes across in the way they treat their vendors (get the fbo staff onside for example and find out what the really think of NJE) and while it won't bring the company crashing down it has and will cost them business.
Agree, that is why the purchasing guy and CEO were ousted a few years ago (and guess who is on the board of Banana Republic). Or do you recall correctly who went when and why
Re the FBO's you are right, the faxed changes drives them crazy and same to us (on the bb)... but it goes with the business AND wait until the new software comes in
Last edited by No RYR for me : 8th October 2008 at 23:10.
Reason: typo
We all know who's gone where. All the more reason for Netjets to be worried. The mistake some people there appear to be making is writing them off on the basis of their personalities.
At the risk of sounding patronising (please don't take it that way) management operate on a different level. If the current NJE management are any good they'll be ignoring the stories about flash cars and chair throwing and concentrating on what the Jet Republic team know about the inner workings of NJE and how that will be used to their advantage. It's not just the two people that everyone seems to be focussing on either, there are some very, very good people at JR whether or not you want to take them seriously. Certainly good enough to take some money away from NJE if they (JR) can survive long enough.
Laugh at them, call them names but think about this. Every penny they make at Netjets' cost moves you all further away from that company pension that's "coming".
As for the fbo's and other vendors it's got nothing to do with faxes, software or any ex-management. You really should get to know some of them, you'd be surprised.
It's not just the two people that everyone seems to be focussing on either, there are some very, very good people at JR whether or not you want to take them seriously. Certainly good enough to take some money away from NJE if they (JR) can survive long enough.
This is very true, but the one who decided to put those two on the business card for the key-positions in the company should be aware that he is taking away a considerable amount of highly qualified people working for NTA right now and prospects too. A few of them are willing to change. However, if they have a spark of sense in their brains left, then they rather stay where they are. Just because of those two which are discussed here instead of the good start-up idea. It appears somewhat contraproductive. It might have been a better idea to put others in the front and let THEM do their Job in the background. But a guy like JB will always look for the mainstage, italian cars, TV, and so on. Both were kicked away from NTA disappeared and are now seeking the neighborhood again? Crusaders looking for revenge?
I consider this at least a questionable strategic move, possible prospects and shareholders can read, even this forum and if I had the choice to spend such an high amount of money, then I would choose wisely and not with a trace of doubt in my mind about the competancy of their seniors. Smart they are, no doubt about their competencies, but they dont have what it takes to succeed.
I am more worried about the competitors doing their homework in a more appropriate fashion. Lufthansa Private Jet to name the most serious one. Strong brand, smart people, NTA knowhow which they got cheap.
Letīs wait and see, but I am confident that LPJ will make it to the top.
Why would you want to work for JR, a startup with THOSE 2 at the helm, while in the mean time most of the bad stuff at NJE has been sorted out. Just so you can endure all the "bad old days" of NJE again in JR colours? Not me!
At this moment I'm more wary about Luftie setting up private jet shop then JR. But, we'll see what the future brings for us all.
While very few crew with prior knowledge will join JR there are others who will. NJE is not the sole supplier of pilots, europe is full of them. They'll find enough people, perhaps even some of those frustrated fast track captains hired by Netjets. Several I know took a large pay cut on the understanding they would be in the RH seat for only a few months. The bills are piling up, they need to earn more money.
4Green. There's no denying JB made a success of White Concierge. The investors have seen that, will have made due diligence enquiries and now know far more about him than you or I do. As they tell you at indoc these people don't get rich by being stupid.
I say again though, what about the rest of the management team? Those who keep repeating 'I wouldn't work for him/them' just aren't looking at the big picture They've been canny in their hiring. Ex-NJE people with strategic knowledge and 'outsiders' with proven track records. They'll pinpoint NJE's weaknesses and work on them. Chaotic ops/catering/flight planning, money wasted making the same calls several times over.......you all know where a more efficient organisation could improve things.
I agree, their timing is questionable and it's highly unlikely they'll outgrow Netjets but as I said before they might still make a hole in the opposition's profits. Watching from a distance with nothing to lose either way is going to be entertaining.
Virtually the worse landing performance of all bizjets
You can't keep ignoring the fact that the Lear 60 needs nearly 6,000 ft landing distance for public transport (charter) ops into a wet runway with just 4 passengers and typically minimum NBAA-type IFR reserves. It needs nearly 5,200ft to land on a dry runway on the same basis - that in Europe wipes out the use of an awful lot of useful alternatives to the slot congested and costly commercial hubs.
It ticks lots of other boxes for go-faster pilots, but it's uncharterable for too many regional and GA options.
Let me say, first of all, that it is the first time that I post comments here.
In regards to what I have read on the comments above, I have to agree that it will be interesting to see the competition between the two neighbours... Few of you above ask if it is worth working to JR... Well, all companies have to start at some point. If everyone would think it is very dangerous to change jobs because a company can go wrong (indeed...) then companies would never even... start!
Now, a lot of you (at least readers) I know from speaking several times on the phone... some others had the honor to meet personally.
But, again, life is made of risks (and you guys/gals, should know that better, being pilots...) and sometimes they are necessary. How many of you would think the same way back in 1996, or even in yr 2K if you were given the possibility to join NJE? It is very easy to say that you are willing to work for an established company. But arenīt they worth the chance? As far as I heard, they are staying in CISCO office in Lagoas Park (maybe around 2 kīs from NJE) but they are already building their own office building (something like that). This has to mean something, doesnīt it?
Apparently, they have the knowledge and the means ($) to atract people from NJE. Its like that in every business and thereīs no denying it. And it will always be like that, in ALL businesses. You learn from the best and apparently they want not only to learn but to progress and grow. As far as personalities in their staff, honestly, I think that the people concerned will not make the same mistake again, in terms of personality. I might be wrong, but, oh well, you never know.
In terms of clients, from their staff profiles they are people who know a lot of other people, who have connections at high places. Thatīs already a good start, donīt you think?
In terms of aircraft/RWY capabilities, I know an endless number of times that other companies flights have landed in places with even no fire-cat enough, or landing in LFMD in out of limits for revenue flight. Still, it all turns out to the hands of the crews and their ability. One thing is what you see on the charts, the other thing is what a pilot sees in front of him. Anyway, regulations allow for an aircraft to land GA even with passengers, if you own the aircraft (like a fraction of the plane). I believe that will sort out some issues. Others do that quite often.
As far as OPS is concerned, if JR really wants to do something professional, I donīt think it will be THAT difficult. Itīs just a matter of will and investing on the right resources (both human and technical) which is something others lack... and a LOT. Specially the will...
Only time will tell what this new venture will bring. But I wish them luck in this business. After all, they will have people working there. Which is something others never thought about much. They tend to forget that people make a company and not the other way around.
Again, good luck to them and may we all win with competition!
Not me!
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