Crosswind Limits

Hi folks

I have been through the search facility and found some useful information. I have also checked LASORS which clearly states I am not type rated to fly the C551 with my C500/550/560 rating.

What if the C551 is operated under an AOC which requires 2 crew at all times for public transport and private flights? Do both pilots then have to be rated on the C551 or is it sufficient for the PIC to have it and P2 to have the C550 multi crew rating? What if neither of the pilots has the C551 endorsement in their licences, is the flight then illegal, notwithstanding being flown under an AOC.

I have emailed the CAA with this query but would appreciate any comments.

Cheers!

His dudeness

At least the german authority makes a distinction between 551 and 550.
The 551 is a CLASSRATING (FAR23, Single pilot). (Actually its the C501/551)
The 550 is a TYPE RATING (FAR25, 2 crew) (C500/550/560)

It used to be on rating (pre JARFCL) (500/501/550/551/560)

So if you operate under an AOC it is a 2 man crew both having a 551 classrating.
Operating private, one could fly single hand, but with a current C551 CR. ->this might be different in the UK.

A C550 TR wouldn´t help at all on a 551. No 551 rating is a definite no-no

Miles Magister

Although I stand to be corrected, it is my understanding that the 551 is the same aircraft as the 550 and the 501 the same as the 500. The only difference is that your license is for single pilot operations 501/551 vs multipilot operations 500/550. Your LPC will determine which rating you have on the same aircraft. You must be tested in the role which you operate. ie single pilot LPC= 501/551 rating. Multi crew LPC=500/550. You must have a valid LPC for the role you operate. You can not operate 501/551 on an AOC as all turbine night or IFR public transport flights must be multi crew. If you have a 551 rating you must revalidate for a 550 rating.

MM

Crosswind Limits

Thanks guys.

MM

So what you are saying is you can't treat a C551 as if it were a C550 for AOC operations and fly it 2 crew.

Miles Magister

The aircraft is the same, it is your rating that matters. You must get a 550 rating on your license to fly it AOC. This should just involve doing a multi pilot LPC. Talk to FCL about how to get a 550 rating and get their answer in writting. Remember FCL will know nothing about what you need for an AOC, that is flight operations area. You just need to know what you have to do to get a 550 rating.

G-SPOTs Lost

As I understand it, 551 aircraft is not the same as it is certified at 12500lbs and not 14300 that the 550 is.

PS numbers from memory, I stand to be corrected

BillieBob

In the UK(JAA) the C501/551 and the C525 are single-pilot aeroplanes and the requirements for a type rating are in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.251. The C500/550/560 are multi-pilot aeroplanes and the type ratings are in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.250. A single-pilot type rating does not qualify you to fly a multi-pilot aeroplane any more than a multi-pilot type rating qualifies you to fly a single pilot aeroplane, irrespective of the operating conditions.

formulaben

Just an FYI:


Cessna Aircraft earned FAR Part 25 transport category type certification for its Citation 500 fanjet in September 1971 and for its Model 550 Citation II in March 1978. Part 25 aircraft must have at least two crewmembers in the cockpit because of the need to have a back-up in the event of crew incapacitation. The pilot-in-command must have an aircraft type-rating, but the second-in-command need only meet the requirements of Part 61.55.

In 1977, Cessna elected to pursue Part 23 normal category certification for a slightly modified version called the Model 501. Under the requirements of Part 23, aircraft with MTOWs less than 12,500 pounds could be OK’d for single-pilot operations if an FAA evaluation deemed the workload acceptable. The Citation 501, or Citation I/SP, easily passed the FAA’s single-pilot workload test. The pilot-in-command still needed a type rating, but a properly qualified PIC no longer needed an SIC.

For the Citation II, Cessna elected to pursue both Part 25 transport category certification for the basic Model 550, having a 13,300-pound MTOW, and Part 23 normal category certification for the Model 551 Citation II/SP, a 12,500-pound MTOW limited aircraft.

The development of the 14,700-pound MTOW Citation S/II in the early 1980s, though, made it impractical to spin off a 12,500-pound Part 23 version without incurring severe operational limitations. So, Cessna petitioned FAA Flight Standards in Washington, D.C., for an operational exemption to Part 25’s requirement to have two crewmembers, arguing that the excellent safety records of the Citation I/SP and II/SP enabled the S/II to be flown safely by a single pilot with a CE500 common type-rating. The FAA agreed, at the time, and granted what has become known colloquially as the Cessna Exemption. Cessna subsequently applied for extensions of the single-pilot operation exemption for the Citation 500, 550 and 560 models for pilots with the CE500 common type-rating, thus eliminating the need for separate single-pilot, Part 23 versions of 500-series aircraft. Uvalde, Texas-based Sierra Industries and Seattle-based Shannon Engineering also earned single-pilot operational exemptions for Part 25 500-series Citations.

When Cessna initiated development of the Model 525 CitationJet in the late 1980s, the FAA determined that it was sufficiently different from other Citation 500 models to warrant a separate type-rating. The CJ would be certified as a Part 23 aircraft, making it eligible for single-pilot operations. Cessna, though, pursued both CE-525 two-pilot and CE-525S single-pilot type-rating approvals, thereby giving operators a choice of flying alone or with an SIC. The CJ3 also will be certified as a Part 23 aircraft, but in the higher-weight commuter category. Want to fly with an SIC if you have a CE-525S type-rating? Just take a Part 61.58 checkride with an SIC and you’re qualified!

· Fanjet 500, later Citation 500: original production version first flown September 1969. Production version intered service in 1971.
· Citation I: enhanced performance version of the Citation 500, introduced 1976. Compared to the Citation 500, the wingspan was longer, higher gross operating weight, and more powerful JT15D-1A engines.
· Citation I/SP: Special performance version of the Citation I (previously dubbed the Citation 501), introduced in 1977. Last production version of the orignal Citation, last one delivered in 1985. Replaced by the CitationJet. The I/SP is certified for single-pilot operation, but the I and 500 are not.
· Citation II: development of the Citation I originally designated the Citation 550, featuring a fuselage stretch (max seating of 10), longer span wings, more powerful JT15D-4 engines, and increase baggage storage capacity. Certified in 1978.
· Citation II/SP: single-pilot version of the Citation II.
· Citation S/II: based on the Citation II but certified for single-pilot operation, The S/II featured aerodynamic improvements with a new supercritical wing based on what had been developed for the Citation III, and newer JT15D-4B engines. Certified in 1984 and temporarily replaced the Citation II in production until 1985 when the Citation II was reintroduced.
· Citation Bravo: based on the Citation S/II, but with newer PW530A engines, modern cockpit avionics (the Honeywell Primus suite), redesigned interior based on the Citation Ultra, and trailing link main landing gear legs. Certified in 1996, replaced both the Citation II and S/II in production. Current production standard that replaces the I/II series.
· Citation V: development of the Citation I, previously designated Citation 560. The Citation V series is a development of the Citation II/SP. Compared to the Citation II and II/SP, the V series have a slight fuselage stretch and more powerful JT15 engines. The Citation V was certified in 1988.
· Citation Ultra: based on the Citation V with more advanced avionics featuring the Honeywell Primus suite. The Ultra was certified in 1994. Also features an advanced supercritical wing based on the design work for the S/II and Bravo series.
· Citation Ultra Encore: an Ultra with new trailing link main landing gear legs, new fuel efficient PW535 engines, increased fuel payload, redesigned interior and improved systems. Current production standard of the V series.
· Citation III: Originally the Citation 650, the III is larger all-new design to supplement the smaller Citation I/II/V series. Features a swept supercritical wing, T-tail, new fuselage, and Garrett TFE731 turbofans. Certified in 1982.
· Citation VI: low-cost derivative of the Citation III with a standard interior (no customization options) and simpler cockpit avionics. Only 39 were built 1991-1995.
· Citation VII: certified in 1992, the Citation VII is a Citation III with systems improvements and more powerful Garrett engines for better hot/high performance. The VII is still in production, replacing the III/VI series.
· Citation X: Cessna's flagship business jet (designated the 750) first certified in 1996. All new fuselage, sharply swept supercritical wings, FADEC-equipped Allison AE3007 engines, and whole host aerodynamic features to facilitate its high cruise speed. The achievements of the Citation X were so significant, the engineering and test team was awarded the Collier Trophy in 1997.
· Citation X/SP: increased performance version of the Citation X upcoming that will enhance primarily its range/fuel burn.
· Citation Excel: the Model 560 combines a shortened version of the Citation X's fuselage with the advanced supercritical straight wings of the Citation Ultra and new PW545 engines. Certified in 1998.
· Citation Sovereign: the Model 680 features a stretched Excel fuselage combined with all-new supercritical wing with, along with the horizontal tailplane, features a new planform. Uses the PW306 (same engines as on the 329JET).
· CitationJet: The Model 525 replaces the orignal I/II series with the same forward fuselage with an all new wing, new Williams FJ44 engines, and a T-tail. EFIS avionics are standard, as is single-pilot operation. Certified in 1993.
· CitationJet CJ1: A CitationJet 525 with Collins Pro Line 21 cockpit avionics suite and an increased operational gross weight (primarily fuel/payload).
· CitationJet CJ2: stretched CJ1 with more powerful FJ44-2C engines, longer span wings, increased area tail.
· CitationJet CJ3: further stretch of the CJ2 with even longer wings, larger tail, and FADEC controls on more powerful FJ44 engines.
· Citation Mustang: all new light jet aircraft to compete with the likes of the Eclipse 500, smallest of the Citation family past or present. High aspect ratio supercritical wings, T-tail, and sleek contours and oval windows compared the rest of the Citation family.
· CitationJet CJ4: the Citation CJ4 isn’t just another derivative of the CitationJet line, but rather is a clean-sheet design that incorporates some of the best features found in other Citations. It has the Encore-plus’s cockpit and cabin, the Mustang’s wide cabin door, Sovereign-style wing performance and the CJ3’s external baggage capacity. The CJ3 will probably replace the Encore/Encore+ (CE-560) series around 2010, thus ending the Part 25 Cessna Citation 500 series aircraft production run after nearly 40 years.