Question regarding BEA/BOAC airport chart marterial
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Question regarding BEA/BOAC airport chart marterial
Hello everyone,
Out of a personal nostalgical interest I've got a question regarding the airport chart material (airport layout/SID, / STARS/instrument approaches etc..) that BEA and BOAC used / issued to their pilots:
1.)
Did BEA/BOAC provide their very own charts or did they source them from an external supplier like Jeppesen?
2.)
How were this charts distributed to the pilots ? As a complete booklet / manual on the aircraft /pilots ? or from a centralized drawer system where the pilots would pick the needed charts for dep. arr. and altn. airports before each duty?
( I think Lufthansa once had such a system...)
3.)
If they were distributed in booklet from / as complete manual, what was the official name for it? "BEA route manual" or something else ?
I tried finding this on ebay or in digital form at the usual manual sites , but so far no luck.
Maybe because I searched for the wrong terms.
Thank you very much in advance,
Kind regards,
Oliver
Out of a personal nostalgical interest I've got a question regarding the airport chart material (airport layout/SID, / STARS/instrument approaches etc..) that BEA and BOAC used / issued to their pilots:
1.)
Did BEA/BOAC provide their very own charts or did they source them from an external supplier like Jeppesen?
2.)
How were this charts distributed to the pilots ? As a complete booklet / manual on the aircraft /pilots ? or from a centralized drawer system where the pilots would pick the needed charts for dep. arr. and altn. airports before each duty?
( I think Lufthansa once had such a system...)
3.)
If they were distributed in booklet from / as complete manual, what was the official name for it? "BEA route manual" or something else ?
I tried finding this on ebay or in digital form at the usual manual sites , but so far no luck.
Maybe because I searched for the wrong terms.
Thank you very much in advance,
Kind regards,
Oliver
BEA in the early 70s produced there own stuff with letraset. We picked up a nav bag for our area which contained three sets of airport info, sids and stars (three pilots), a forth book which was for take off performance and a FDR cassette which occasionally found its way into the Thames. There was an aerad book and a set of aerad charts in case we had a routing off our PLOGs which were A5 iirc and we folded them twice so that they would fit onto our individual clipboards and where we had to write all of our clearances down. Probably the reason why the other crew members didn't see the droop retraction at Staines.
The PLOGs and Navlogs were for the individual routes and contained a Letraset graphic of runways and sids..a route map with beacons, tracks and distances and star routes. All annotated with freqs and the sector minimum altitudes. If there was a change then we changed them by hand until a new batch could be printed.
They were collected from racks in queens building.
P3 was responsible for the nav log. Mid 70s we started getting a computer flight planning print out.
Iirc the kites at Duxford have some of the documents in them.
The PLOGs and Navlogs were for the individual routes and contained a Letraset graphic of runways and sids..a route map with beacons, tracks and distances and star routes. All annotated with freqs and the sector minimum altitudes. If there was a change then we changed them by hand until a new batch could be printed.
They were collected from racks in queens building.
P3 was responsible for the nav log. Mid 70s we started getting a computer flight planning print out.
Iirc the kites at Duxford have some of the documents in them.
Last edited by blind pew; 13th Sep 2017 at 14:17.
BOAC at the same time had a computer which printed out our route. We flew with charts open all of the time which facilitated off routings and emergencies.
Think we collected them from dispatch but can't remember whether we had our own books.
In my next company we had individual sets which we studied at home before our trip started. We were responsible for the amendments and we had audio visual trainers available 24/7.
A more comprehensive system (KSSU).
The BA museum at waterside have some of this stuff in their archives.
Iirc Aerad was sold off by Lord King.
Think we collected them from dispatch but can't remember whether we had our own books.
In my next company we had individual sets which we studied at home before our trip started. We were responsible for the amendments and we had audio visual trainers available 24/7.
A more comprehensive system (KSSU).
The BA museum at waterside have some of this stuff in their archives.
Iirc Aerad was sold off by Lord King.
Last edited by blind pew; 13th Sep 2017 at 14:21.
blind pew is correct about the BEA charts and the PLOGS produced in house using Letraset.
BOAC owned its own chart producing company, Aerad, which printed en-route airways charts, area charts and airfield instrument approach and airfield charts. Sets of these were provided for the pilots in the aircraft library - the instrument approach and airfield charts being contained in ring bound folders and and the airways charts in a book of plastic wallets. For navigation sectors, if I remember rightly, we used SAS produced N Atlantic navigation charts with Loran hyperbolae, Consol arcs already printed on them. I forget what we used across the Pacific.
When the 747 was introduced and INS was retrofitted into the 707s and VC10s the documentations was changed for use by a three man crew with the flight engineer fully integrated into the flightpath monitoring. A complete set of charts (airfield, instrument approach, SIDs/STARs, area and en-route) were included in new stowages for each of the three crew members. We experimented with PLOGS but they were quickly abandoned because of the many changes of route, especially in the US.
BEA used a system of MSA contours which was adopted for use by both longhaul and shorthaul and which became the Aerad standard for all instrument approach charts. We also adopted area manoeuvring charts which displayed a 'target' pattern consisting of DME circles and VOR radials so the crew could check the safety of radar vectors which, in some parts of the world, were highly suspect! These also showed MSA contours.
Airways charts continued to be kept in books of plastic wallets. Instrument approach, airfield and SIDs/STARs charts were combined into booklets for each airfield.
I hope this answers all your questions.
BOAC owned its own chart producing company, Aerad, which printed en-route airways charts, area charts and airfield instrument approach and airfield charts. Sets of these were provided for the pilots in the aircraft library - the instrument approach and airfield charts being contained in ring bound folders and and the airways charts in a book of plastic wallets. For navigation sectors, if I remember rightly, we used SAS produced N Atlantic navigation charts with Loran hyperbolae, Consol arcs already printed on them. I forget what we used across the Pacific.
When the 747 was introduced and INS was retrofitted into the 707s and VC10s the documentations was changed for use by a three man crew with the flight engineer fully integrated into the flightpath monitoring. A complete set of charts (airfield, instrument approach, SIDs/STARs, area and en-route) were included in new stowages for each of the three crew members. We experimented with PLOGS but they were quickly abandoned because of the many changes of route, especially in the US.
BEA used a system of MSA contours which was adopted for use by both longhaul and shorthaul and which became the Aerad standard for all instrument approach charts. We also adopted area manoeuvring charts which displayed a 'target' pattern consisting of DME circles and VOR radials so the crew could check the safety of radar vectors which, in some parts of the world, were highly suspect! These also showed MSA contours.
Airways charts continued to be kept in books of plastic wallets. Instrument approach, airfield and SIDs/STARs charts were combined into booklets for each airfield.
I hope this answers all your questions.
chevvron,
I think you will find that International Aeradio Ltd was set up as a BOAC subsidiary company in 1946. Whether after that it was also part owned by BEA, I don't know, but I suspect not. After the merger it was owned by BA.
I think you will find that International Aeradio Ltd was set up as a BOAC subsidiary company in 1946. Whether after that it was also part owned by BEA, I don't know, but I suspect not. After the merger it was owned by BA.
"None of the capital of International Aeradio Limited will be subscribed directly from public funds. The three Airways Corporations have agreed to contribute the major portion of the present authorised capital of £250,000, but the amount to be subscribed by each organisation has not yet been settled."
PQs, December 1947.
PQs, December 1947.
These images illustrate the PLOGs (produced in-house) for the Trident 3 operating GVA to LHR in Feb 1978.
dep GVA arr LHR
en route
diversions
dep GVA arr LHR
en route
diversions
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Re the ownership of AERAD;
From Hansard 6/8/47;
From Hansard 6/8/47;
The members of the Board of International Aeradio, Ltd. are as follow:
Sir Victor Tait, K.B.E., C.B —Chairman,
Major J. R. McCrindle, O.B.E., M.C.,
Mr. Whitney Straight, C.B.E. M.C., D.F.C.,
nominated by the British Overseas Airways Corporation;
Group-Captain Patrick Saward, O.B.E.,
Commander Vladimir Wolfson,
Group-Captain Patrick de Laszlo,
nominated by the British European Airways Corporation;
Captain Gordon Store,
nominated by the British South American Airways Corporation.
The members of the Board are answerable to the shareholders. The three British Airways Corporations hold 75 per cent. of the shares.
Sir Victor Tait, K.B.E., C.B —Chairman,
Major J. R. McCrindle, O.B.E., M.C.,
Mr. Whitney Straight, C.B.E. M.C., D.F.C.,
nominated by the British Overseas Airways Corporation;
Group-Captain Patrick Saward, O.B.E.,
Commander Vladimir Wolfson,
Group-Captain Patrick de Laszlo,
nominated by the British European Airways Corporation;
Captain Gordon Store,
nominated by the British South American Airways Corporation.
The members of the Board are answerable to the shareholders. The three British Airways Corporations hold 75 per cent. of the shares.
Airclues,
Thank you - I stand corrected. Do you know who owned the remaining 25%? Presumably, when BSAA was absorbed into BOAC the airline holding was then split between BOAC and BEA, and then after the merger held by BA until they sold Aerad. Was that in the 1990s?
This might also be of interest:-
https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightP...20-%200130.PDF
Thank you - I stand corrected. Do you know who owned the remaining 25%? Presumably, when BSAA was absorbed into BOAC the airline holding was then split between BOAC and BEA, and then after the merger held by BA until they sold Aerad. Was that in the 1990s?
This might also be of interest:-
https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightP...20-%200130.PDF
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Hello,
thank you all very much for your input! I had not expected so many replies to this
thread/to my questions !
This is most informative.Thank you
Kind regards,
Oliver
thank you all very much for your input! I had not expected so many replies to this
thread/to my questions !
This is most informative.Thank you
Kind regards,
Oliver
I have several old Aerad charts from the VC10 era, unfortunately I don't have the time (or haven't found it yet) to scan the lot. I have two examples available on my site here though: Incidents and Accidents
If there is anything in particular you'd like to see, let me know.
If there is anything in particular you'd like to see, let me know.
BEA Airport info.
The set of three books we collected with the nav bag were route dependent. Iirc there was a volume for the med, another for the north (moscow and Scandinavia) and a third set which covered Central Europe. They all had the civil airfields and diversion fields around the British isles. Somewhere we had Manston as they had a foam carpet facility if we had undercarriage problems. Might have been in the Aerad supplement though which didn't have any diagrams..just numerical descriptions.
The books were roughly 10" x 10", an inch thick and spiral bound so that we could put them in our chart holders which were under the DV windows.
Not the best system as one had to look away from the instrument panel to read them.
My last lot used let down plates which one removed and clipped onto the control column.
The plog PDF have RA circled ..we had a system of hieroglyphics..RA was red adf..number 1 GA was green adf..number two..circled was identified...and an arrow was when it was selected and pointing as displayed. We out a line through when we finished displaying it.
On the left on the departure plog are a couple of flight levels..on papa india their initial clearance was iirc 5,000ft..they were cleared to fl60 just before the droop retraction. Many us believe that Key and Ticehurst were writing down the clearance when keighley selected the droop in as he mistook an non standard command from key to put FL 60 into the autopilot height acquire box which was adjacent to the droop lever.
Bit off the subject but..
The set of three books we collected with the nav bag were route dependent. Iirc there was a volume for the med, another for the north (moscow and Scandinavia) and a third set which covered Central Europe. They all had the civil airfields and diversion fields around the British isles. Somewhere we had Manston as they had a foam carpet facility if we had undercarriage problems. Might have been in the Aerad supplement though which didn't have any diagrams..just numerical descriptions.
The books were roughly 10" x 10", an inch thick and spiral bound so that we could put them in our chart holders which were under the DV windows.
Not the best system as one had to look away from the instrument panel to read them.
My last lot used let down plates which one removed and clipped onto the control column.
The plog PDF have RA circled ..we had a system of hieroglyphics..RA was red adf..number 1 GA was green adf..number two..circled was identified...and an arrow was when it was selected and pointing as displayed. We out a line through when we finished displaying it.
On the left on the departure plog are a couple of flight levels..on papa india their initial clearance was iirc 5,000ft..they were cleared to fl60 just before the droop retraction. Many us believe that Key and Ticehurst were writing down the clearance when keighley selected the droop in as he mistook an non standard command from key to put FL 60 into the autopilot height acquire box which was adjacent to the droop lever.
Bit off the subject but..
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Question regarding BEA/BOAC airport chart marterial
As part of my training in 1965, I had a spell I within BEA's Aircraft Library within Queens Building. The documents you mention resonate very well.
There was a wallet containing radio navigation charts for the network, including special routes whilst flying within Germany, especially through East German airspace whilst operating Internal Services Germany flights.
Separately, there were the aformentioned Aerodrome Information charts - 3 sections, with very tough grey plastic ring binders.
As trainees, it was our job to ensure revisions were made to both - oh joy!
There was a wallet containing radio navigation charts for the network, including special routes whilst flying within Germany, especially through East German airspace whilst operating Internal Services Germany flights.
Separately, there were the aformentioned Aerodrome Information charts - 3 sections, with very tough grey plastic ring binders.
As trainees, it was our job to ensure revisions were made to both - oh joy!
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I did many sectors on the flight deck of BA Tridents in the 70's. I seem to remember on some there was a chart at the front on a roller that was clearly mechanically operated as every now and again there would be a judder and it would spasmodically move. I do not believe the movement was caused by the flight crew. I have often wondered what made the chart move and how accurate it was and if it was based on a timer set to an estimated ground speed. Perhaps Blind Pew could enlighten me. I think the photo below shows the chart.
If the aircraft's position moves off the top or bottom of the map, the map just scrolls a bit.
But if the position moves off the side of the map, the map needs to fast-forward (or back) to find the relevant swathe.
Older PPRuNe thread on the Trident moving map here:
Moving maps displays - ancient mechanical!
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Question regarding BEA/BOAC airport chart marterial
This, I recall, was a Decca Navigator (originally a maritime product, with an ink stylus to print on a slowly rolling map - how, and what speed I do not know. Don't know how it behaved in turbulence either!
MikercO , deffo a Doppler , not Decca navigator . Doppler has 4 aerials TX/RX 2 fwd and out left /right . And 2 aft , out left /right [Janus ] . The apparent freq. shift from tx/rx [ Doppler effect .. change in note of a train whistle as it passes ] is measured and through the autopilot/flight controls sys. gave drift and grounspeed .Transferred to the pointer . Roller map selected in crew room for appropriate route . Activated when a/b . Also provided drift and G/S display on HSI , drift thingy [window ?] could be closed allowing Flt director / A/p to follow desired track from heading bug . Very good system for SA. If map pointer wandered off [ maybe Calm Sea conditions ] ; just line it up again with info from a VOR/DME .
Doppler drift 'n G/S fitted on 737-200s was not so good . Rumour said it was a cheap helicopter sys. which could not go to jet speeds .
Decca Navs. fitted to the Viscount fleet .
Hope that helps .
rgds condor .
Doppler drift 'n G/S fitted on 737-200s was not so good . Rumour said it was a cheap helicopter sys. which could not go to jet speeds .
Decca Navs. fitted to the Viscount fleet .
Hope that helps .
rgds condor .