Airliner flight deck training flights in the 70s and 80s.
the BEA Malta route was via Rome iirc so a Viscount was fine, although I think it possibly could make it non-stop
Our BMA viscounts with 73Y pax load could do LPL-PMI and BHX-Mahon so Malta from LHR should be doable ?
I recall early tridents also could not make it non-stop to Malta
Bear in mind the Trident 1 followed the Comet down the Hatfield production line. BEA had bought quite a fleet of Comets, which could handle all the medium-range points, and I understand unwisely depreciated them in the accounts over 20 years. One would be fine for the Malta run, although being a monopoly route (like Gibraltar) Vanguards were stuck on the non-stops long after prop aircraft had passed their sell-by date on routes of such length.
It was an old BEA tradition that the Eastern Med was served by flights which stopped at both Rome and Athens.
Wiser councils soon prevailed and the Trident 2 did have the range for everything that the Comets did, but the depreciation issue and a huge potential writeoff was still with them. It was the principal driver behind setting up BEA Airtours with them, once they were beyond scheduled service usage (the noise in the rear cabin being a key issue, but that's apparently OK for a Night Malaga at revenue of £18 return per pax).
It was an old BEA tradition that the Eastern Med was served by flights which stopped at both Rome and Athens.
Wiser councils soon prevailed and the Trident 2 did have the range for everything that the Comets did, but the depreciation issue and a huge potential writeoff was still with them. It was the principal driver behind setting up BEA Airtours with them, once they were beyond scheduled service usage (the noise in the rear cabin being a key issue, but that's apparently OK for a Night Malaga at revenue of £18 return per pax).
Ah, the wonderful noise of 1-11 crew training in the early Spring at Bournemouth as the Courts of this world trained up their crews for the Summer season. There seemed to be hardly a time when one couldn't hear one somewhere, usually extremely loudly as they practiced single engine go arounds.
I visited the Tower one evening when there were two 1 -11's in the circuit and the telephone was going non stop as people called to complain about the noise. To be fair ATC did try to share the noise around and told every complainant how much each movement contributed towards the local rates.
This raucous noise was often accompanied by the more gentle but intrusive drone of the College of Air Training Barons as the future 1-11 pilots practiced their holds and ILS approaches.
The military still seem to use EGHH a lot as we see quite a few C130, Merlin and Chinooks doing ILS approaches., perhaps as the crews are building up experience towards their civilian licences
A friend of mine practiced an ILS in a Sea Vixen and made the mistake of doing a touch & go. It resulted in a no tea and biscuits interview when Yeovilton got the bill.
I visited the Tower one evening when there were two 1 -11's in the circuit and the telephone was going non stop as people called to complain about the noise. To be fair ATC did try to share the noise around and told every complainant how much each movement contributed towards the local rates.
This raucous noise was often accompanied by the more gentle but intrusive drone of the College of Air Training Barons as the future 1-11 pilots practiced their holds and ILS approaches.
The military still seem to use EGHH a lot as we see quite a few C130, Merlin and Chinooks doing ILS approaches., perhaps as the crews are building up experience towards their civilian licences
A friend of mine practiced an ILS in a Sea Vixen and made the mistake of doing a touch & go. It resulted in a no tea and biscuits interview when Yeovilton got the bill.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Doonfoot, Ayr
Age: 70
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Worked at Prestwick in the 70's when BA Concordes and Tristars were doing circuits. Actually walked under a Concorde to get to the canteen! Hard to believe I actually got bored watching Concorde all the time. Those were the days!
Thread Starter
I'd like to see Leeds Bradford get used for training more. The runway length is no longer an issue and there are quieter periods during the day. No escaping the weather though.
Herod, if you're reading this, did Air UK use any other airports than Leeds Bradford for training ?
Herod, if you're reading this, did Air UK use any other airports than Leeds Bradford for training ?
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't recall Malta being used for Viscount training in the 60s although they operated the London-Rome-Luqa as well as Luqa-Tripoli-Benghazi and Luqa- Catania for Malta airlines. My V800 conversion was done at a deserted Stanstead
However, from 1964 Malta certainly was used for the massive Vanguard training programme as the Hamble graduates came on stream. This was partly because of the excellent winter weather statisitcs and partly due to a very attractive deal on landing fees. As before mentioned the training aircraft could be seamlessly integrated into the passsenger schedule.
As increasing traffic and increasing landing fees began to rule out old favourites like Stanstead and Prestwick, then continental options such as Beauvais were used for 757s.
When Trident automatic go-arounds from 14 feet were being practised at Prestwick, ATC sometimes could not tell whether the wheels actually touched (with consequent higher charge!)
However, from 1964 Malta certainly was used for the massive Vanguard training programme as the Hamble graduates came on stream. This was partly because of the excellent winter weather statisitcs and partly due to a very attractive deal on landing fees. As before mentioned the training aircraft could be seamlessly integrated into the passsenger schedule.
As increasing traffic and increasing landing fees began to rule out old favourites like Stanstead and Prestwick, then continental options such as Beauvais were used for 757s.
When Trident automatic go-arounds from 14 feet were being practised at Prestwick, ATC sometimes could not tell whether the wheels actually touched (with consequent higher charge!)
BKS, Northeast, British Air Services and BA viscounts all used LBA for training through the 1960s and 70s. Through those years there were a number of 'based' training captains who would use LBA and sometimes MME when an aircraft was available in between the schedules.
There was a limited amount of British Midland training with both the viscounts and DC9s.
As for the RAF, the Hastings based at Lindholme....when it was an airfield and area radar unit [!], were frequent visitors for practice half-mile SRAs....those were the fun days!
There was a limited amount of British Midland training with both the viscounts and DC9s.
As for the RAF, the Hastings based at Lindholme....when it was an airfield and area radar unit [!], were frequent visitors for practice half-mile SRAs....those were the fun days!
Thread Starter
The RAF have been in town today with one of their C-17s. A few low approach/go arounds then off somewhere else.
I have a clear memory of the distinctive and plaintive whine of four RR Darts at about FL50 flying round the LBA hold for what seemed hours. If it wasn't a Viscount awaiting a visibility/cloud base improvement (quite likely) then it was probably a BA (or predecessor) training jolly. At the controls ? Perhaps Malcolm Rolph, Peter Owen or Les Rackham.
I have a clear memory of the distinctive and plaintive whine of four RR Darts at about FL50 flying round the LBA hold for what seemed hours. If it wasn't a Viscount awaiting a visibility/cloud base improvement (quite likely) then it was probably a BA (or predecessor) training jolly. At the controls ? Perhaps Malcolm Rolph, Peter Owen or Les Rackham.
Thread Starter
I've just remembered, one Saturday night in Autumn 1988 a Hot Air Viscount called at Leeds Bradford for some training. I seem to remember a lot of circuits but there was probably some instrument training thrown in too. No doubt giving ATC something to do on what would otherwise have been a quiet evening.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Prestwick, Scotland
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the peak Prestwick had up to 10 based trainers at a time and up to 6 in the circuit at a time.eg 3 BEA 1-11s, 3 BEA Tridents, BOAC 707, BOAC VC10 and whatever. VC10 G-ARVM was a particular resident. Also 3 Court Line 1-11s at a time. BOAC/BA 747s and Concordes. Managed 4 Concordes on the ramp at once, each time one broke they sent another. Fury one night when an RAF Belfast joined the circuit. The Wednesday RAF Britannia, the 3pm RAF Lightning. Fast forward to today and home from home for RAF A330, C17s and Hercs. Ryanair each day this week and often, Jet 2, Monarch and others regular visitors inc the USAF. Something most days. Seems to be slot controlled now with a limit of 2 trainers slots at a time. Can lead to disappointment or delay if you arrive without having booked the slot, the runway being a busy runway with civil, military, light, helicopters et all. This past few months must be the busiest military transit airfield in the country, today 3 USAF, 3 RAF and 3 RCAF.
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=PIK3141;9884150]In the peak Prestwick had up to 10 based trainers at a time and up to 6 in the circuit at a time.eg 3 BEA 1-11s, 3 BEA Tridents, BOAC 707, BOAC VC10 and whatever. VC10 G-ARVM was a particular resident. Also 3 Court Line 1-11s at a time. BOAC/BA 747s and Concordes. Managed 4 Concordes on the ramp at once, each time one broke they sent another. Fury one night when an RAF Belfast joined the circuit. The Wednesday RAF Britannia, the 3pm RAF Lightning. Fast forward to today and home from home for RAF A330, C17s and Hercs. Ryanair each day this week and often, Jet 2, Monarch and others regular visitors inc the USAF. Something most days. Seems to be slot controlled now with a limit of 2 trainers slots at a time. Can lead to disappointment or delay if you arrive without having booked the slot, the runway being a busy runway with civil, military, light, helicopters et all. This past few months must be the busiest military transit airfield in the country, today 3 USAF, 3 RAF and 3 RCAF.[/QUOTE
Sounds like enormous fun back in the day. Incredible to think that there could be up to four Concordes on training duty at once. Nice and noisy, even without the likes of VC10s and 707s.
Sounds like enormous fun back in the day. Incredible to think that there could be up to four Concordes on training duty at once. Nice and noisy, even without the likes of VC10s and 707s.
