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EC-121 Super Constellation

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EC-121 Super Constellation

Old 17th Apr 2016, 23:33
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Thanks, tonytales. Fascinating to read that the Connie had PFCUs on all primary flight controls, whereas the Boeing B367-80 jet transport, launched as late as 1952 and first flown in 1954, relied on balance-panel assistance for elevators and ailerons, although roll control was supplemented by the hydraulically-powered spoilers. (Perhaps you or someone else can tell us whether the rudder-boost system familiar to B707 crews was fitted to the Dash 80 at launch, or if it was a retro-fit.)

Did the Connies have any feel system, and if so was it Q-feel?
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Old 18th Apr 2016, 00:26
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I recall seeing a set of photos taken from a Shackleton escorting a civilian Super Connie that had an engine mount bolt failure - one of the engines had a sad looking sag on it ...
I think it was a transatlantic flight and the aircraft landed at Shannon?
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 00:17
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EC-121

We supported a squadron of EC-121s at McClellan AFB in California in the 1960s.

The cone-like nose made for a very small cockpit.

Once, on a flight to Hickam AFB in Hawaii, the squadron commander's bird lost an engine off the wing, and it plopped into the Pacific. They arrived safely, however.
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 03:28
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@tonytales

American was having fits with the Wrights. Curtiss put out a book for American crew and mechanics in 1957. Gov't reporting was 10 engine failures per day on the east coast west coast runs (Aviation and the Role of Government, pg 144). The Curtiss Wright book included:
BASIC THEORY OF OPERATION FOR WRIGHT TURBO COMPOUND ENGINES - 1965 reprint of 1957 manual based upon lectures to American Airlines DC-7C Flight Crews and Maintenance Staff.
This manual covers:
Effect of Airflow on Power
Effect of Mixture Strength on Power
Effect of Mixture Strength on Engine Temperatures
Detonation and Pre-ignition
Summary of Reasons for Using 10% BMEP Drop
Carburetion
Exhaust System
The Effect of Spark Advance
Cruise Mixture
Fuel Distribution
Manifold Pressure Limits
Carburetor Ice
Ignition Analyzer Policy with One Dead Cylinder
TC18 Tips

Have to wonder if the Connie had the same failure rate?

On a personal note, I remember dropping my Uncle off at Idlewild for his return trip to LA in the mid-to-late '50s. Gave me plenty of time to wander above the concourses and take in the sights. I soon centered on a SwissAir DC7C getting ready to depart. Passengers were on board and 3 4 and 1 were humming. 2 would not kick despite repeated tries. After what had to be 10 minutes, all the engines were shut down and ladders were moved up to number 2 for maintenance to work on. With the anticipated delay, passengers deplaned. Had to be an hour or so with portions of the cowling off and mechanics working away. At some point, ladders were moved away, cowling was still off and the captain got number 2 running. OK, shut it down, put the cowling back on and re-board the passengers.

Round 2 - 3, 4, and 1 running and 2 bolted back together but again would not kick. Engines shut down and mechanics back to work. This time no dice - engine still wouldn't fire. At some point, must have been a couple of hours now, air stairs were put up to the front cabin door and the captain came down to discuss with the ground crew. Once again the ladders were moved, cowling off, and as the Good Lord is my witness, the captain climbs the stairs and starts hammering on something in the engine. Climbs down, instructs the ground crew to bolt her back up and move the ladders and air stairs, clambers back on board and number 2 starts as if nothing had ever been wrong. 4 going and I'm wondering how the folks on board felt at departure if they had seen that.
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 11:34
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One of the old-style captains. The engine WOULDN'T DARE to disobey him.
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 12:23
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@b1lanc "Have to wonder if the Connie had the same failure rate?"

Given that she was often referred to as "the best ever three engined airliner" I guess thats an affirmative
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 13:02
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When I watched the big prop liners like Constellations and the various DCs, starting up at Entebbe, Uganda, there were always two chaps with an extended fire extinguisher standing by the engine about to be started. Notice they weren't used during this machine's startup.
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 13:35
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Quote:
"When I watched the big prop liners like Constellations and the various DCs, starting up at Entebbe, Uganda, there were always two chaps with an extended fire extinguisher standing by the engine about to be started. Notice they weren't used during this machine's startup."

Precisely my thought too, Argonautical. See my earlier post (Lusaka). Doubt it was just jobs for the locals.

Quote from b1lanc:
"...as the Good Lord is my witness, the captain climbs the stairs and starts hammering on something in the engine. Climbs down, instructs the ground crew to bolt her back up and move the ladders and air stairs, clambers back on board and number 2 starts as if nothing had ever been wrong."

Maybe a tip he'd picked up from a grizzled maintenance guy at Zurich? Not all captains were mechanically-ignorant premadonnas, Herod, as I'm sure you will remember - and a handful were/are even ex-mechanics! Sometimes, if it's the B-team's turn on the ramp, even a pilot can show them a thing or two...
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 15:35
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Percussive engineering - brilliant!

When I was learning to fly the Jet Provost, on one occasion an AC inverter wouldn't start as advertised. The groundcrew lad raced off to the hangar, from which emerged a grizzled old Chief in one of those brown pigman's coats they used to wear.

The next thing I knew was the nose had been opened, 'Chiefy' then rolled up his sleeve and reached inside - and the aeroplane shook as he thumped the recalcitrant inverter in the nether regions, whereupon it started working. Down with the nose, thumb up and off he went. No paperwork, but job done!
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Old 19th Apr 2016, 16:11
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On one of my early (constituted) crews, we had a Flight Engineer who always brought with him a long metal pole when we went on detachment/land-aways. He would never say what it was for until one day when one of the inboard engines would not start. HAving already been introduced to the 'kick start' procedure by another crew (rushing down the runway on 3 then unfeathering the recalcitrant engine at about 80kts!) I assumed that's what would come next. In fact, all the Eng did was climb out on the wing through the overwing hatch, open up the top panels and thread his long pole through the innards, before taking the big mallet from the tool kit and giving it an almighty wack - again felt throught the whole airframe. He then reassembled everything, pressed the start button and everything worked as advertised.

He subsequently showed me that it was the easiest way of getting the start solenoid to work as they had a propensity to stick, and he had been shown the trick (he said) on Lancasters.
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Old 20th Apr 2016, 17:29
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Regarding the Wright engines on Connies and DC-7's. I started work in 1954 as they were being delivered to my companies customers. The 3350 was generally an easy starter due to being direct fuel injected. All the commercial models were so there was usually little technique required. The carbureted engines of both Wrights and P&W could be something else, particularly in cold weather.
On the direct injected engines it was usually not necessary to use the primer as the injection nozzles were spraying the fuel directly into the cylinder.
On carbureted engines the primer went into the blower section and the fuel had to travel a distance through the induction pipes to get to where the fire was supposed to be. Over-priming could result in raw fuel from the exhaust stacks and blower drain and a little backfire would light it off. Experience would tell you if it were necessary to use the ground fire extinguisher for if the engine caught it and ran it would blow the fire out. Fuel pooling on the ground though could make an impressive blaze. Starting a carbureted engine in very cold weather was an art and we (maintenance), sometimes had to go upstairs and assist some of our customers who normally operated in the tropical regions. The induction vibrators used to tickle the magnetos for greater output on starting would often burn out from too much use as did starters. Worst of all was opening the throttle to try to "catch" and engine on startup would caused the plugs in the cylinders to ice up. That meant a plug change or a long wait for ground heaters to warm things up.
Sticky solenoids on strarters and inverters that had stopped on a dead spot on their commutators did sometimes respond to malletizing. Plenty of same problems with the jets, pneumatic starter valves that wouldn't open.
All in all, the TC models required a lot of maintenance. The power recovery turbins (PRT) and the cooling caps cracked a lot. The blades on the PRT were extremely brittle and a little mishandling could easily damage a turbine requiring a change. Changing a Nbr. 2 released a flood of oil on top of you. Lots of cylinder cracking too. The exhaust pipes wore out at joints. We had a lot of ignition distributor changes too and there was a long period of trying different spark plugs before the right ones came along.
It was necessary to inspect the oil screens regularly and too many shiny particles or chips or even chunks signaled an internal failure and an engine change. The big Wright's were also great sludge producers, particularly the BA series and it collected in the prop domes. These had to be regularly de-sludged.
All in all, working those engines was a dirty, hard job and as a youngster I loved it.
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Old 21st Apr 2016, 14:49
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Back in the late 1960s, when I was flying VC10s, I had a long slip in Lima with several days off. I had wanted to take the train up into the Andes, but heavy rain had caused a landslide which had blocked the track. So, instead, I wandered down to the Trans-Peruana airline's office and asked to hitch a ride over the Andes to Iquitos.

I wanted to do this because they were flying ex-BOAC 049 Connies. The first leg was (and I kid you not) between the peaks of the Andes to Pucallpa where we landed on what looked like a bumpy country road amongst the trees. It was immediately filled after we landed with people, donkeys, dogs and chickens. When we set off again, these were chased off the runway by a man in a car and we set off for Iquitos on the upper Amazon.

But I do admit to having a few second thoughts when I saw how run down the aircraft looked and, again, when the captain pulled out an Esso road map from which he seemed to be navigating! However, a marvelous ride with all those lovely engine noises and clouds of smoke when starting up.
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Old 21st Apr 2016, 15:20
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Thanks tonytales for your valuable insight.
Ta also to Bergerie for the mind-picture you conjured up.
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Old 21st Apr 2016, 20:00
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I was flying co pilot on the 1049H at Tigers back in 1965. My first trip was a pax configured charter from KEWR to KONT. The airplane was former KLM Connie that Tigers had acquired from KLM. It crashed many years later down in Mesa, AZ after Tigers had sold it.

The clearance from EWER was to cross a fix somewhere in Pennsylvania at 10,000. The Captain looked over at me said something to the effect that we would not be able to make that crossing restriction. At the time the east cost of the US might as well have been the backside of the moon to me. I conveyed the Capts thoughts and the controller said, "standby". A minute or two later he came back with a new clearance and said we were to cross Kansas City at or above 10,000. I laughed of course since KC is half way across the United States.

Last edited by Spooky 2; 22nd Apr 2016 at 23:12.
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Old 22nd Apr 2016, 20:22
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Did the Connies have any feel system, and if so was it Q-feel?
Chris Scott

Sorry I missed that point in you post. No, there was no Q-feel on the Constellation boost system. If I remember correctly it was just springs, but, its been a long time. I know pilots always like the "feel"" of flying the Connies. The whole flight control boost system, except for continual leakage particularly from the rudder system, gave little trouble.
The flight control boost system was little changed too from the first L-49 series to the last of the L-1049's. The system operated at 1700-psi so required volumes of fluid to move things. Four engine driven variable displacement hydraulic pumps were fitted but no electric aux pump. A hand pump to the right of the F/O could pump up the brakes or lower the nose gear. There was provision for fitting a hand crank to the flap drive back in the cabin floor and I contest that no one would ever try to get full flaps down using it. Lots and lots of turns. One peculiarity that maintenance had to live with was the fittings on the tubing. Right to the last L-1049 there were still some AC (Army Air Corp) flared fittings. There were a lot of the later AN (Army Navy) fittings mixed in on the L-1049's. They looked similar but loss of an AC fitting caused problems as they were scarce.
The L-1649 Starliner with its elegant long wing had a 3000-psi hydraulic system with a some of its features coming from the then oncoming Electra.
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