VC10 Display (White Waltham 1977)
A bygone age sadly, those who were lucky enough to have witnessed such displays, or even to have taken part must look at today's risk averse climate and wonder where it all went wrong 
I didn't get to White Waltham that day, but witnessed a good few good air shows where the experience was more personal and perhaps ethereal. Bravo Bald Eagle
P.S The voice over on the film bore a remarkable similarity to Alan 'Fluff' Freeman…..
SHJ
I didn't get to White Waltham that day, but witnessed a good few good air shows where the experience was more personal and perhaps ethereal. Bravo Bald Eagle
P.S The voice over on the film bore a remarkable similarity to Alan 'Fluff' Freeman…..
SHJ
But Tony Smith was flying it.
SpringHeelJack
Too true - witness these screen grabs from my 8mm cine film of Neville Browning inverted in his Zlin G-ASIM at a Battle of Britain display at Biggin Hill which I estimate I shot in the early to mid 1960's (I bought my cine camera in 1960).
Neville Browning in his Zlin Treiner approaches inverted
Passing overhead along the crowd line - my guess is that he is 20 - 30ft above the crowd!
Still inverted
Climbing away
Apologies for the quality but cine-film screen grabs are no match when compared to still camera photos
A bygone age sadly, those who were lucky enough to have witnessed such displays, or even to have taken part must look at today's risk averse climate and wonder where it all went wrong
Neville Browning in his Zlin Treiner approaches inverted
Passing overhead along the crowd line - my guess is that he is 20 - 30ft above the crowd!
Still inverted
Climbing away
Apologies for the quality but cine-film screen grabs are no match when compared to still camera photos
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: UK
Age: 70
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Back to the VC10 at WW......
Picture the scene, Prince Charles is chatting to the crowd with his back to the flight line.
Over his right shoulder a very quiet, throttles retarded VC10 surfs quickly past and the bit the cameras missed was the steep left hand pull up over the bungalows of Woodlands Park where 4 RR Conways suddenly made their presence felt.
The ground shook and HRH turned around with an expression of puzzlement.
Picture wise, I was torn between him 10ft away or the VC10, hence I have a very out of focus Prince and a shaky VC10.
Picture the scene, Prince Charles is chatting to the crowd with his back to the flight line.
Over his right shoulder a very quiet, throttles retarded VC10 surfs quickly past and the bit the cameras missed was the steep left hand pull up over the bungalows of Woodlands Park where 4 RR Conways suddenly made their presence felt.
The ground shook and HRH turned around with an expression of puzzlement.
Picture wise, I was torn between him 10ft away or the VC10, hence I have a very out of focus Prince and a shaky VC10.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Age: 76
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bergerie1 is correct. The aircraft was flown by Tony Smith, who was the VC10 Flight Training Manager. Alan, who was a TCP was on board as a safety pilot as the aircraft had been on a base training detail.
SpringheeledJack, I thought the voice was a little John Craven-ish.
Whomever it was, it gets the old nostalgia juices flowing SHJ
Young aviators might need reminding that there was no RA (radio altimeter) on VC10s (unless the BOAC/BA a/c were doing autoland trials - finncapt?).
The height difference between the pilot's eye and the aft belly fairings in the flare was greater (even on the standard VC10) than on other narrow-bodied jets, so this would have been a fine bit of visual judgment, particularly as it was over a short, grass runway.
Yes, Alan Harkness went on to have a distinguished career in training and management.
The height difference between the pilot's eye and the aft belly fairings in the flare was greater (even on the standard VC10) than on other narrow-bodied jets, so this would have been a fine bit of visual judgment, particularly as it was over a short, grass runway.
Yes, Alan Harkness went on to have a distinguished career in training and management.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK
Age: 76
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There certainly was a radio altimeter on the VC10's that I flew although I can't vouch for VM as it was only used for base training at the time. There's a good description of the flight from somebody who was on board in post 159 of this thread;
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...vc-10-a-8.html
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...vc-10-a-8.html
Last edited by Airclues; 20th Nov 2015 at 11:28.
I took this photo inside G-ARVM as she is currently preserved at Brooklands. I'm pretty sure that the grey bezeled instrument is a Radio Altimeter. I also checked a photo I took at RAF Cosford in 1999 and the same instrument was installed then. That doesn't constitute absolute proof that one was installed during the 1977 flight of course but I have a hunch that as a training aircraft, 'VM would have carried a similar instrument fit to what was installed in the Supers, apart from the autoland capacity which was never fitted on the Standards as far as I know.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Finland
Age: 77
Posts: 465
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There was certainly a radio altimeter and yes it is the grey instrument.
I can't recall the standards not having autoland capability, but it was a long time ago.
I do remember the super having an extra 14 1/2? degree flap position and we had a call, after take off at 400ft, "super aicraft flap 14 1/2".
Surprisingly, maybe, there was never a problem with anyone miss calling.
Then again the flight engineer would probably have chopped pnf's hand off before he had a chance to move the lever.
There were also a pair of lock toggle flap isolation switches on FE panel and moving the flap lever probably wouldn't have retracted the flaps as he would have isolated them already!!
I wonder how the RAF handled the difference, between std. and super, in this regard - cue Beags.
I can't recall the standards not having autoland capability, but it was a long time ago.
I do remember the super having an extra 14 1/2? degree flap position and we had a call, after take off at 400ft, "super aicraft flap 14 1/2".
Surprisingly, maybe, there was never a problem with anyone miss calling.
Then again the flight engineer would probably have chopped pnf's hand off before he had a chance to move the lever.
There were also a pair of lock toggle flap isolation switches on FE panel and moving the flap lever probably wouldn't have retracted the flaps as he would have isolated them already!!
I wonder how the RAF handled the difference, between std. and super, in this regard - cue Beags.
Last edited by finncapt; 20th Nov 2015 at 14:58.
You can thank Capt Alan Harkness for bringing VM down to 1mb, it was after all, by Royal Appointment.
He went on to fly Concorde after that.
He went on to fly Concorde after that.
The RA would have been a great advantage for the flypast! BTW, Jhieminga, you picture the RA on the R/H panel of G-ARVM at Brooklands. What about the L/H, or has the whole panel been removed?
Hi finncapt,
I'm thinking the SOP for autoland on the line might have been for the copilot to call the heights? Presumably, that's what AH would have done on this occasion.
(Our standards [1103s and an 1109] didn't have autoland equipment or RAs, but as stated elsewhere they had a variant of the super wing to enable FL430. It included droop-snoot tips and the Flaps 14½° setting, which was obligatory for NBO/LGW or even EBB/LGW.)
Hi finncapt,
I'm thinking the SOP for autoland on the line might have been for the copilot to call the heights? Presumably, that's what AH would have done on this occasion.
(Our standards [1103s and an 1109] didn't have autoland equipment or RAs, but as stated elsewhere they had a variant of the super wing to enable FL430. It included droop-snoot tips and the Flaps 14½° setting, which was obligatory for NBO/LGW or even EBB/LGW.)