Why is the HS 748 known as the Budgie?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: vic australia
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hi fantom. i seem to remember that the raaf 748s had a little sign just inside the cabin saying welcome to white knuckle airlines. and just another memory from laverton was a c47 flew in from ARDU and just behind the cockpit door was a builders plate saying built in kansas city 1942 this was about 1990/1 the raaf got their moneys worth out of that aircraft.
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,371
Received 110 Likes
on
77 Posts
"his first job was to join a team redesigning the nosewheel assembly on the 80p because they had just discovered that the props needed to absorb the power of the engines were going to hit the ground if they didn't do something.
Ah yes, the wonderful noseleg. I can only hope your nephew can be absolved of blame for locating at least two grease nipples that were inaccessible when the leg was fitted. This minor detail led to a couple of hiccups....so to speak.
As for why the biggest heap of junk was so atrocious....let's have a quick think.
Door shoot bolts that happily froze at about -2C. The door locking mechanism was as complex as you could get and bore a close resemblance to the Isle of Man's flag symbol.
Air stair external operating button conveniently located at the base of the main pax door.
O2 bottle that originally had to be removed for replenishment.
A couple of useful access panels on the left hand side of the nose, that had to be embodied as a mod. rather than at manufacture as they should have been.
Various bits located in the belly panels, non really accessible.
No ovens in the galley.
I/c external jack plug......erm, the outdated British version.
The horizontal stab vibration. if you sat at the rear, you could alternate between watching the stab. vibrate and your meal transit across the tray due to said vibrations.
The engine. About a week to change and inaccessible. The oil cooler was a very special delight you might say. BM engineers dropped a spanner when the heap first arrived...an engine change was required to retrieve said spanner. Loganair hold the record for an IFSD....dep Woodford with both working....arr MAN with one working.
The flaps.....prone to erm, emulating the Grand Canyon in the vicinity of the exhaust and, some thought had clearly gone into this... the flap drive gear box and the replenishment plug.....the item was the same as the Budgie.....alas, the 5/16 Whit plug required a Whit spanner....the rest of the world used A/F or metric.
Product "support". Such was the success of the heap, a "hearts and minds" day out ( free sarnies ) was offered by Woodford to operators various as to how they were "addressing the issues".
A rep arrived one night, said hello, and then legged it to the hotel.
Each heap was lovingly hand crafted at Woodford and Chadderton, thus interchangeability was never actually considered as being useful, for say the big bits like the stab de-icing boots. They all had to be "adjusted" to fit.
Thus, one "happy night", a phone call was made to Chadderton to ask for just such a bit....yes, they had one...hurrah !...however, "Don't come between 01.00 and 02.00 as lads were on brew..ok !" and phone hung up.
We arrived at just before 01.00 and waited....about 20 mins so they would all be ensconced in their tea / reading the Sun etc. There were some very rude words said therefore when we did introduce ourselves.
The MM's gave the impression they had been written as a form of community relations project, by a primary school in Bramhall or Poynton.....as in "How an aircraft works..by Class 1B"
The selling point was it only needed about 23 pax to make a profit, and fuel burn that gave accountants orgasms. The little matter of weight and balance when full was merely an "inconvenience ".
The heap should be mandatory studying for every budding design engineer...."here's how to not to do it "
Ah yes, the wonderful noseleg. I can only hope your nephew can be absolved of blame for locating at least two grease nipples that were inaccessible when the leg was fitted. This minor detail led to a couple of hiccups....so to speak.
As for why the biggest heap of junk was so atrocious....let's have a quick think.
Door shoot bolts that happily froze at about -2C. The door locking mechanism was as complex as you could get and bore a close resemblance to the Isle of Man's flag symbol.
Air stair external operating button conveniently located at the base of the main pax door.
O2 bottle that originally had to be removed for replenishment.
A couple of useful access panels on the left hand side of the nose, that had to be embodied as a mod. rather than at manufacture as they should have been.
Various bits located in the belly panels, non really accessible.
No ovens in the galley.
I/c external jack plug......erm, the outdated British version.
The horizontal stab vibration. if you sat at the rear, you could alternate between watching the stab. vibrate and your meal transit across the tray due to said vibrations.
The engine. About a week to change and inaccessible. The oil cooler was a very special delight you might say. BM engineers dropped a spanner when the heap first arrived...an engine change was required to retrieve said spanner. Loganair hold the record for an IFSD....dep Woodford with both working....arr MAN with one working.
The flaps.....prone to erm, emulating the Grand Canyon in the vicinity of the exhaust and, some thought had clearly gone into this... the flap drive gear box and the replenishment plug.....the item was the same as the Budgie.....alas, the 5/16 Whit plug required a Whit spanner....the rest of the world used A/F or metric.
Product "support". Such was the success of the heap, a "hearts and minds" day out ( free sarnies ) was offered by Woodford to operators various as to how they were "addressing the issues".
A rep arrived one night, said hello, and then legged it to the hotel.
Each heap was lovingly hand crafted at Woodford and Chadderton, thus interchangeability was never actually considered as being useful, for say the big bits like the stab de-icing boots. They all had to be "adjusted" to fit.
Thus, one "happy night", a phone call was made to Chadderton to ask for just such a bit....yes, they had one...hurrah !...however, "Don't come between 01.00 and 02.00 as lads were on brew..ok !" and phone hung up.
We arrived at just before 01.00 and waited....about 20 mins so they would all be ensconced in their tea / reading the Sun etc. There were some very rude words said therefore when we did introduce ourselves.
The MM's gave the impression they had been written as a form of community relations project, by a primary school in Bramhall or Poynton.....as in "How an aircraft works..by Class 1B"
The selling point was it only needed about 23 pax to make a profit, and fuel burn that gave accountants orgasms. The little matter of weight and balance when full was merely an "inconvenience ".
The heap should be mandatory studying for every budding design engineer...."here's how to not to do it "
Last edited by Krystal n chips; 6th Feb 2015 at 06:07.
I underwent conversion to the first HS 748 destined for the RAAF VIP Squadron based at Canberra. That was late 1966 and we did our four hour conversion (flying) course on G-ARAY at Woodford in Cheshire. There were no nicknames for the aircraft at the time. The chief test pilot at the time was Jimmy Harrison and with him was Tony Blackman, Bill Else and Eric Franklin.
Jimmy Harrison displayed the first 748 in India where it was to be built under licence. G-ARAY was not equipped with weather radar in those days. Jimmy inadvertently penetrated a severe thunderstorm and frightened himself considerably when the aircraft was caught in a massive updraft with its associated violent turbulence.
I recall Jimmy telling us (RAAF pilots) that he kept muttering to himself as the 748 went up and down in the cloud "this aircraft is built fail-safe, this aircraft is built fail-safe etc etc" because that was one of the main selling points of the 748 design. On return to Woodford after that fright, Jimmy ensured radar was fitted to all future 748's.
Jimmy Harrison displayed the first 748 in India where it was to be built under licence. G-ARAY was not equipped with weather radar in those days. Jimmy inadvertently penetrated a severe thunderstorm and frightened himself considerably when the aircraft was caught in a massive updraft with its associated violent turbulence.
I recall Jimmy telling us (RAAF pilots) that he kept muttering to himself as the 748 went up and down in the cloud "this aircraft is built fail-safe, this aircraft is built fail-safe etc etc" because that was one of the main selling points of the 748 design. On return to Woodford after that fright, Jimmy ensured radar was fitted to all future 748's.
A little while later -
"Lufthansa 800, Ground - after the departing Speedbird line up and wait runway 28 Right. After departure, SQUEAK 2366, your departure frequency will be 119.725 - contact tower now on 118.5"
"Lufthansa 800, Ground - after the departing Speedbird line up and wait runway 28 Right. After departure, SQUEAK 2366, your departure frequency will be 119.725 - contact tower now on 118.5"
Lufthansa - as reported, we are not a clockverk mouse, etc.
PanAm - Waal, have it your own way, but you look like a clockwork mouse to me.
London ATC - as reported, Squeak etc.
Budgie ? Looks like one.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kerry Eire
Age: 76
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Friends who worked at Woodford and Chadderton said things started to go down hill when the BAe suits took over. The 748 was designed by people involved in or trained by the designers of the Lancaster, Lincoln and Vulcan. The ATP was designed by a different generation using computers.
The various changes and the final rebranding of the type as a Jetstream were sticking plasters applied by a management determined to eliminate anything that carried passengers from their inventory.
The final BAe stupidity as far as the old AVRO operation was concerned was the axing of the RJX. Now I'm not going to say it would have been a world beater but it was axed in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 on the basis that the market had evaporated in the flames of the WTC. Many of the RJX team went to Canada, the US and even Brazil and, apart from the loss of talent to the UK, Bombardier and Embraer not only proved the market was still there but managed to grow it and became leaders in the regional jet market from a very small base.
The various changes and the final rebranding of the type as a Jetstream were sticking plasters applied by a management determined to eliminate anything that carried passengers from their inventory.
The final BAe stupidity as far as the old AVRO operation was concerned was the axing of the RJX. Now I'm not going to say it would have been a world beater but it was axed in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 on the basis that the market had evaporated in the flames of the WTC. Many of the RJX team went to Canada, the US and even Brazil and, apart from the loss of talent to the UK, Bombardier and Embraer not only proved the market was still there but managed to grow it and became leaders in the regional jet market from a very small base.
The RAAF HS-748 navigation trainers were known as 'Draggies'. Conversely, the two 748s operated by the Royal Australian Navy were known as 'Speedbirds'; probably in comparison with the Grumman Trackers that the squadron, VC851, also operated.
Maybe it was called the Budgie because of the Darts' whistle??
I flew both the RAN 748s and Ansett F27s, and have fond memories of both.
Maybe it was called the Budgie because of the Darts' whistle??
I flew both the RAN 748s and Ansett F27s, and have fond memories of both.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Scotland
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that the 748 was called the Budgie by BA originallyOM15 I think that you are correct here.
I think it may have been given the name 'Budgie' by BA folks at GLA soon after its delivery when it would have be seen and compared on the ramp with the existing Viscount fleet. (perhaps also at ABZ & LSI?) The name certainly caught on and was often used by locals in the H &I area when referring their means of transport to the mainland!
I think it may have been given the name 'Budgie' by BA folks at GLA soon after its delivery when it would have be seen and compared on the ramp with the existing Viscount fleet. (perhaps also at ABZ & LSI?) The name certainly caught on and was often used by locals in the H &I area when referring their means of transport to the mainland!
Registered User **
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Botswana & Greece
Age: 68
Posts: 940
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SSD
You may be right but I made a call once : 'Ascot xxx Andover over Andover on hand over, over'
Also never heard it called a 'budgie'!
As for calling 'The Queen of the Skies' an 'Iron Duck' wash you mouth out and do 200 press ups.
"London Mil good afternoon, Ascot 31. We're an Andover on hand over, over Dover, over".
Also never heard it called a 'budgie'!
As for calling 'The Queen of the Skies' an 'Iron Duck' wash you mouth out and do 200 press ups.
We referred to the 146 as the 'Limpet': It having reached Terra Firma, it displayed limpet-like qualities ever to leave again.
The 737-200 was known simply as the 'Scud' during the nineties, due to it "Making one hell of a racket getting off the deck, and no-one really knows where it'll come down"
Whilst some of the 200s were 'Hush-kitted' with a quarter of a tonne of useless and unaesthetic aluminium, I used to giggle at a certain eastern Europe operator that merely painted 'Stage 3' on the cowls of it's JT 8s to comply with niose regs.
The 737-200 was known simply as the 'Scud' during the nineties, due to it "Making one hell of a racket getting off the deck, and no-one really knows where it'll come down"
Whilst some of the 200s were 'Hush-kitted' with a quarter of a tonne of useless and unaesthetic aluminium, I used to giggle at a certain eastern Europe operator that merely painted 'Stage 3' on the cowls of it's JT 8s to comply with niose regs.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
edinv
The first post that is true. The Scottish BA staff called it the Budgie as soon as it arrived at GLA. I seem to remember at that time there was a comedian
on TV who worked his act around budgies and the one about a Gulf airline hostie asking an Arab with his pet Hawk on his shoulder if his budgie would like some seed.
When BEA Scotland received their two Short Skyvans they became Jocks Box.
on TV who worked his act around budgies and the one about a Gulf airline hostie asking an Arab with his pet Hawk on his shoulder if his budgie would like some seed.
When BEA Scotland received their two Short Skyvans they became Jocks Box.
Nothing wrong with the 748 though.
Unfortunately one of the pilots stuffed up his landing into a place called Wabag 7000 ft density altitude on the day. Wabag had an undulating strip and after a mis-timed flare plus too early throttle closure the aircraft hit very hard indeed.
The incident was kept quiet but during maintenance back at Canberra a few days later both engines were noticed to have slight droops. Closer investigation revealed significant airframe damage as well as damage to the engine attachments. The pilot was interviewed by the CO. He somehow convinced the CO that it wasn't his fault the landing was heavy but the fault of the undulating runway. The gullible CO took his word as an officer and a gentleman and subsequently we stopped using the 748 in PNG except for sea level sealed surfaces. A real pity as it was a fine aircraft in the Highlands providing a modicum of good airmanship was used.
Great post, Krystal n' chips, every word true, obviously a man who spent many happy hours on the Skoda!
Took me straight back to the early 90s Loganair days! And I could add a few you missed!
Took me straight back to the early 90s Loganair days! And I could add a few you missed!
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The HS748 I know by two names, one is Budgie for the little budget they obviously spent for the invention of this plane and the other one, told by a long time HS748 captain, is Bufl'Bils - Bu(ilt) f(from) l(itter) b(rought) i(nto) l(aughable) s(hape) ... when it comes to this I still wonder how many HAL748 (the Hindustan licensed version) are still in the air, have only seen a total number of 22 of all variant still in service?
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kerry Eire
Age: 76
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no truth in the belief held by some that the 748 was built cheaply. At the time of its inception AVRO were deeply committed to building Mk2 Vulcans and a great deal of work with the Shackleton.
The brief was to build a DC3 replacement which would appeal to that type's users with all the ruggedness of the type, low and relatively simple maintenance plus the benefits of speed provided by the Darts and a pressurised cabin.
With no real post war expertise of the civil market after the disaster of the Tudor, working from a plain sheet of paper, having to start a completely different design and production environment and build a marketing and after sales back up operation, there was nothing cheap about getting the type in the air and in service. The long life of many of the airframes in the environments in which they were used is testimony to the fact that the build was not a cheap job either.
The brief was to build a DC3 replacement which would appeal to that type's users with all the ruggedness of the type, low and relatively simple maintenance plus the benefits of speed provided by the Darts and a pressurised cabin.
With no real post war expertise of the civil market after the disaster of the Tudor, working from a plain sheet of paper, having to start a completely different design and production environment and build a marketing and after sales back up operation, there was nothing cheap about getting the type in the air and in service. The long life of many of the airframes in the environments in which they were used is testimony to the fact that the build was not a cheap job either.
My lips are sealed..
....as to my source (even though he's retired).
His tales of the users' conference agenda items re the toilet in the ATP were hilarious. (freezing thawing and eventually boiling).
The control runs through the frames with a different harmonic wavelength eating their way through the "grommets" and metal before they sussed it.
I had the opportunity to watch his senior managers in operation and "petty"
is a generous description of their behaviour.
When he moved over to the 146 his descriptions of how they borrowed money at X% to "lend" to customers at X-something to "buy" the a/c, left me slack jawed.
Fitting Textron engines and guaranteeing them for a stupid number of hours when every other operator threw them out at one quarter of that time.
I'm amazed that aerospace actually ever made any money.
The Ancient Mariner
His tales of the users' conference agenda items re the toilet in the ATP were hilarious. (freezing thawing and eventually boiling).
The control runs through the frames with a different harmonic wavelength eating their way through the "grommets" and metal before they sussed it.
I had the opportunity to watch his senior managers in operation and "petty"
is a generous description of their behaviour.
When he moved over to the 146 his descriptions of how they borrowed money at X% to "lend" to customers at X-something to "buy" the a/c, left me slack jawed.
Fitting Textron engines and guaranteeing them for a stupid number of hours when every other operator threw them out at one quarter of that time.
I'm amazed that aerospace actually ever made any money.
The Ancient Mariner
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kerry Eire
Age: 76
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 737-200 may have been the original SCUD but the name transferred to the MD11 because after take off its destination wasn't always as intended and arrival could cause significant damage.
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: U.K.
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Russian, I agree about Bae, but the textron engines (All operators) were only fitted to the 146, Canadair 601 (?) and the Chinook. In 17 years of the 146 I only had one shut down due a genny overheat.
For all the erudite (and occasionally amusing) explanations for the nickname, most of you Sassenachs seem to be unaware that in Scotland a budgerigar is invariably known as a budgie and so it is no surprise that the name rapidly became popular at Glasgow. As I pointed out at Post No 4 - it's a small noisy bird.
Due to the chequered history of the ATP at introduction, it became known as "the Parrot" - on the grounds that it was bigger than a Budgie and always sick.
To be fair, they settled down in service and even commanded the affection of their crews.
Due to the chequered history of the ATP at introduction, it became known as "the Parrot" - on the grounds that it was bigger than a Budgie and always sick.
To be fair, they settled down in service and even commanded the affection of their crews.