Vintage Navigation Aids
Thread Starter
Vintage Navigation Aids
I wonder if anyone can answer a question posed over dinner the other night. When did the aids such as
1 Aural Range ( I remember using Dunsfold range in the 60s)
2 Consul
3 Loran A
4 Decca
That's the trouble when you get old pilots around a table with a good bottle of port!
1 Aural Range ( I remember using Dunsfold range in the 60s)
2 Consul
3 Loran A
4 Decca
That's the trouble when you get old pilots around a table with a good bottle of port!
No 2 is Consol not Consul (that was an aircraft built by Airspeed). They named a whisky after the one in Northern Ireland. That (Bushmills) and Stavanger were still in use early 70s.
A controller at Border Radar called Ray Selkirk reckoned he used to fly from the old Sunderland (Usworth) airfield (now the Nissan factory) to Stavanger by following one of the 'radial' beams, mind you counting the dots must have been a bit time consuming!!
No 4 DECCA nearly had a revival in the mid 80s when someone produced an LCD display which gave you a lat and long position, then suddenly GPS happened. Don't know if any DECCA chains are still radiating but they might be used for nautical purposes.
No 3 I think the US coastguard still maintain some LORAN stations.
No 1 MF Radio Ranges. Not got much experience of these as they were all withdrawn in I think, the late 60s.
A controller at Border Radar called Ray Selkirk reckoned he used to fly from the old Sunderland (Usworth) airfield (now the Nissan factory) to Stavanger by following one of the 'radial' beams, mind you counting the dots must have been a bit time consuming!!
No 4 DECCA nearly had a revival in the mid 80s when someone produced an LCD display which gave you a lat and long position, then suddenly GPS happened. Don't know if any DECCA chains are still radiating but they might be used for nautical purposes.
No 3 I think the US coastguard still maintain some LORAN stations.
No 1 MF Radio Ranges. Not got much experience of these as they were all withdrawn in I think, the late 60s.
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Ray - Again blast from past no not above ground I am sure I saw his obituary in Sunderland Echo a few years ago. What he couldn't explain about Nav aids and Roman settlements on the back of a beer mat wasn't worth knowing!!
And yes he used to fly out of Usworth in the 70 & 80's I am sure he once flew with his mate, a mad Icelandic chap, direct Sola in a AT115 Airtourer of all things!! Probably using DECCA as the North Sea was covered by stations.
And yes he used to fly out of Usworth in the 70 & 80's I am sure he once flew with his mate, a mad Icelandic chap, direct Sola in a AT115 Airtourer of all things!! Probably using DECCA as the North Sea was covered by stations.
Consol
Consol - previously "Sonne"
See here - Consol navigation system
We used Consol from time to time in the early '70s as part of the grand panoply of antique navigation aids available to BOAC transatlantic 707 and VC10 flights - just to demonstrate that we could count.
Also required to demonstrate skill in the use of Air Plot and Circum-zenith fixes before being awarded "real" Nav Licences. I've probably still got the Consol CAP somewhere. Please pass the port. LFH
See here - Consol navigation system
We used Consol from time to time in the early '70s as part of the grand panoply of antique navigation aids available to BOAC transatlantic 707 and VC10 flights - just to demonstrate that we could count.
Also required to demonstrate skill in the use of Air Plot and Circum-zenith fixes before being awarded "real" Nav Licences. I've probably still got the Consol CAP somewhere. Please pass the port. LFH
Thread Starter
I stand corrected with the spelling of Consol.
I remember running an air plot flying south down 16W using position lines from Bushmills, Quimper ( Ploneis) and Lugo Consol stations to update the wind vectors. Also using a Decca MK8 set having departed Gibraltar for Bathurst (now Banjul) and running out of cover just south of Rabat with many hundreds of miles still to go!
I remember running an air plot flying south down 16W using position lines from Bushmills, Quimper ( Ploneis) and Lugo Consol stations to update the wind vectors. Also using a Decca MK8 set having departed Gibraltar for Bathurst (now Banjul) and running out of cover just south of Rabat with many hundreds of miles still to go!
Hi wrecker,
"I remember running an air plot flying south down 16W using position lines from Bushmills, Quimper ( Ploneis) and Lugo Consol stations to update the wind vectors."
Lagos, perhaps? (From memory it was 'LGS' on 364 khz - err, kc/s.)
"I remember running an air plot flying south down 16W using position lines from Bushmills, Quimper ( Ploneis) and Lugo Consol stations to update the wind vectors."
Lagos, perhaps? (From memory it was 'LGS' on 364 khz - err, kc/s.)
The Stavanger consol was still operating in the eighties. Th Aerad had the frequency and the dot code. Kept oneself occupied doing groundspedd checks from Aberdeen to the Shetland Basin.
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Ah this brings back memories, I remember using Consol flying Aberdeen to Sumburgh plus night freight to Amsterdam in a DC3 in the early 70s. When I tell FOs this they look at me in a strange way ...... what you didn't have a FMC?
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Info about VAR and other naiads here: Airways Museum / Civil Aviation Historical Society
If I remember correctly “LG” was Lugo, on the northwest tip of Spain. I used Consol in the late 60’s when on scheduled service LHR-BIO and vv. Leaving the VOR at Nantes the airway was a direct line to the Bilbao NDB. The latter was good and strong but on days with heavy Cb activity it didn’t point well and on the HS748 (Particularly the srs.1) we didn't have the height to stay in range of the VOR for long, so we had consul charts to ensure we stayed within a reasonable distance from the airway centre line.
Quote from Flightwatch:
If I remember correctly “LG” was Lugo, on the northwest tip of Spain.
Yup, I remember it now. Sorry, wrecker, you were quite correct.
If I remember correctly “LG” was Lugo, on the northwest tip of Spain.
Yup, I remember it now. Sorry, wrecker, you were quite correct.
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Yes, there are still plenty of NDBs around, and yes, they broadcast their ident in morse code. Not many form airways anymore, so most are relegated as compass locators and approach aids. Perhaps in ten years (or sooner) they will all disappear..
Thread Starter
Once again regarding Consol I always thought it was known as "Lorenz" and was designed to be used by the U-boats in the Bay Of Biscay. There was also a station at Stavanger which along with Quimper were in occupied land.
Yes it was. Transmitting on MF, it followed ground waves so was very useful at sea level. The Stavanger Consol station was the last and it was still transmitting in 1990.
Aural Range went out in the 70s I gather. (Too young to have used it!)
DECCA died in about 2000 as it was considered that GPS had effectively replaced it. I actually bought one of those digital DECCA receivers. In the late 80s, the price had come down to a few hundred pounds and it was good for the time, but a bit clumsy to use. DECCA was first used operationally in the D Day landings where the boats used it to accurately plot a course along the channels cleared in minefields.
LORAN still exists. It was going to be killed off, but it has been enhanced and the new standard is E-LORAN. The signals are stronger than GPS and less prone to jamming and interference. Combined LORAN/GPS sets are now available.
Aural Range went out in the 70s I gather. (Too young to have used it!)
DECCA died in about 2000 as it was considered that GPS had effectively replaced it. I actually bought one of those digital DECCA receivers. In the late 80s, the price had come down to a few hundred pounds and it was good for the time, but a bit clumsy to use. DECCA was first used operationally in the D Day landings where the boats used it to accurately plot a course along the channels cleared in minefields.
LORAN still exists. It was going to be killed off, but it has been enhanced and the new standard is E-LORAN. The signals are stronger than GPS and less prone to jamming and interference. Combined LORAN/GPS sets are now available.
Someone mentioned Lorenz. The name Lorenz actually refers to the electronics company which made many things including an encryption cipher machine in parallel with the much more famous Enigma machine. Lorenz were the manufacturers of Sonne (Consol) and an adaptaion of Sonne formed the basis of Knickbeim, the German WW2 bombing aid. Lorenz also made the Lorenz beam landing aid, which was the first of it's type appearing in the mid 30s.