Far East Mosquito
Thread Starter
Far East Mosquito
Hi All,
My Mums uncle who passed away a few years ago was a navigator on Mosquitos flying from India and I think Burma, and Dakotas after the war ended. We don't know very much more, he was a modest man in general and never seemed keen to talk about it much. He trained in Canada. The only times I remember him talking about his time in the east was when I was a lad and making an Airfix Mosquito - he showed me where the radio set was mounted and commented that one day a cannon shell had passed through the one in his plane, fortunatly without exploding or he wouldn't be around, and later he showed me his circular slide rule and explained how to use it. Anyway, his log book has turned up and I am hoping to get a look at it later in the year. I am not sure what I will find out, time, route, aircraft serial, crew presumably, but would a navigators log be likely to record much about the kind of mission? I believe it would have been a fighter/bomber version of the Mosquito he would have been flying in so presumably railways and bridges would have been regular targets but does any one know more? Post war we know from correspondance that he flew in Dakotas on routes between Rangoon, Bangkok, Saigon, and possibly KL and Singapore as well as internal flights within Thailand transporting local VIP's. Prisoner repatriation out of Thailand may have been part of it.
Anyway, I will find out more detail when I see his log but would be interested to hear anything about what his day to day life would have been like, types of target etc. I guess it was fairly hazardous, I know the Mossies initially had a high accident rate on top of enemy action and the terrain would not have helped.
I have always thought that he was probably a very good navigator, both to have been posted to Mosquitos and simply not to have got lost - I guess a lot of time would have been over featureless jungle, likely poorly charted and with few if any electronic nav aids.
Many thanks to anyone who has any info that would fill in some of the background.
My Mums uncle who passed away a few years ago was a navigator on Mosquitos flying from India and I think Burma, and Dakotas after the war ended. We don't know very much more, he was a modest man in general and never seemed keen to talk about it much. He trained in Canada. The only times I remember him talking about his time in the east was when I was a lad and making an Airfix Mosquito - he showed me where the radio set was mounted and commented that one day a cannon shell had passed through the one in his plane, fortunatly without exploding or he wouldn't be around, and later he showed me his circular slide rule and explained how to use it. Anyway, his log book has turned up and I am hoping to get a look at it later in the year. I am not sure what I will find out, time, route, aircraft serial, crew presumably, but would a navigators log be likely to record much about the kind of mission? I believe it would have been a fighter/bomber version of the Mosquito he would have been flying in so presumably railways and bridges would have been regular targets but does any one know more? Post war we know from correspondance that he flew in Dakotas on routes between Rangoon, Bangkok, Saigon, and possibly KL and Singapore as well as internal flights within Thailand transporting local VIP's. Prisoner repatriation out of Thailand may have been part of it.
Anyway, I will find out more detail when I see his log but would be interested to hear anything about what his day to day life would have been like, types of target etc. I guess it was fairly hazardous, I know the Mossies initially had a high accident rate on top of enemy action and the terrain would not have helped.
I have always thought that he was probably a very good navigator, both to have been posted to Mosquitos and simply not to have got lost - I guess a lot of time would have been over featureless jungle, likely poorly charted and with few if any electronic nav aids.
Many thanks to anyone who has any info that would fill in some of the background.
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Can I suggest that in addition to posting your query here, you also post it on Forum of the Mosquito Page website at:
Phorum :: WWW.MOSSIE.ORG Discussion Forum
Contributors to that Forum are immensely helpful, incredibly knowledgeable about the Mosquito and may well have details of the Squadron operations book or of specific missions. It really is THE place to find out about Mosquitos and their crews. If you can give any information at all - his name, his Squadron, station names - it will help and could be the key to a whole raft of information.
Try it, and good luck!
DS
Phorum :: WWW.MOSSIE.ORG Discussion Forum
Contributors to that Forum are immensely helpful, incredibly knowledgeable about the Mosquito and may well have details of the Squadron operations book or of specific missions. It really is THE place to find out about Mosquitos and their crews. If you can give any information at all - his name, his Squadron, station names - it will help and could be the key to a whole raft of information.
Try it, and good luck!
DS
The Mosquito operated in the Far East was employed in the light bomber, intruder, ground attack role eg 110 Squadron and the recce role eg 684 and then 81 Sqn.
There were various marks of Mosquito used including the VI, XVI and PR34.
It follows that you need a quick glance at the logbook to determine which direction to go. The monthly summary will tell you the units.
As to post-war transports there were four or more Dakota sqns eg 52, 117, 194, and an SD sqn 357.
Lots of avenues to follow.
Old Duffer
There were various marks of Mosquito used including the VI, XVI and PR34.
It follows that you need a quick glance at the logbook to determine which direction to go. The monthly summary will tell you the units.
As to post-war transports there were four or more Dakota sqns eg 52, 117, 194, and an SD sqn 357.
Lots of avenues to follow.
Old Duffer
jerryH99,
You've got a potential goldmine with a Mosquito and transport Far East guy.
There is so much to research and with any luck it should keep you occupied for years!
Get the Record of Service. That opens up even more opportunities and avenues for enquiry - lucky chap.
Old Duffer
You've got a potential goldmine with a Mosquito and transport Far East guy.
There is so much to research and with any luck it should keep you occupied for years!
Get the Record of Service. That opens up even more opportunities and avenues for enquiry - lucky chap.
Old Duffer
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As others have noted, the logbook should give you squadron information, and they also generally have a (very) brief description of operational and non-operational flights.
I'd recommend trying to find a copy of "No Hero, Just a Survivor", which details ops on Beaufighters and Mossies in Burma, and gives a very good flavour of what life was like.
I'd recommend trying to find a copy of "No Hero, Just a Survivor", which details ops on Beaufighters and Mossies in Burma, and gives a very good flavour of what life was like.
jerryh99
It may be worth looking at Ron Homes's website.
He is an aviation artist who was a WW2 pilot. After a tour as a pilot on Lancasters in Bomber Command he was posted to Dakotas in Burma ( I think!) and certainly flew to Hong Kong and even Oz. IIRC he was on 62 Sqn.
Type Ronald Homes into your search engine and his email address is there. He's a very pleasant guy and I'm sure he'd be happy to furnish info' re Dakota ops in the Far East.
He is an aviation artist who was a WW2 pilot. After a tour as a pilot on Lancasters in Bomber Command he was posted to Dakotas in Burma ( I think!) and certainly flew to Hong Kong and even Oz. IIRC he was on 62 Sqn.
Type Ronald Homes into your search engine and his email address is there. He's a very pleasant guy and I'm sure he'd be happy to furnish info' re Dakota ops in the Far East.
Thread Starter
Thanks all. The library has tracked down a copy of "No Hero", just waiting for it to arrive. Don Clarks website on 211 Squadron has some good photos and accounts.
I do not yet know which squadron(s) he was with, but will see his log book later in the year.
Jerry
I do not yet know which squadron(s) he was with, but will see his log book later in the year.
Jerry
Thread Starter
Hello again all,
Where did 4 years go?
Arthur was indeed with 110 (H) Squadron, his first sortie with them being in Sept 1944 flying in Vengeances from Kalyan. No operations, though it looks as though he might have expected some as there is a box for them in the logs summary pages. Some sorties in Oxfords, pilot usually F/S Hermolin. Squadron C/O was W/Cdr A.E.Saunders, O/C B. Flight S/Ldr. Vael. He had his first Mosquito sortie in Nov 1944 with F/L Wigmore from Kolar, then to Yelahanka (now in A flight, O/C S/Ldr I A Sutherland) for more Vengeance flying with F/Sgt Neate and another Mosquito sortie with F/Lt Lucas. Thence to 1672 Conversion Unit, also Yelahanka March 1945. Oxfords and Mosquitos all with F/O (soon F/Lt) Wardrop, and he flew with no one else until he left 110 (H) so I guess there was a crewing up process. Then back to 110 (H) 4/6/45 for operations. His log for June/July was signed by S/Ldr Shepherd O/C A flight for W/Cdr O/C. Sadly both Saunders and Sutherland had been lost. He flew his last op 11/7/45.
So that's the bones of it for now, conscious of the need not to go on for too long. I know a little of Saunders and Sutherland, Saunders especially was quite well known - anyone know what his O.B.E was for? But of course I would love to know a bit about his pilot, F/Lt Wardrop. I know nothing at all about him, except that from the log he certainly seems to have been a "press on" type! I formed a feeling a while ago that he might have been a Canadian, but can't remember why or find any evidence now.
Any info gratefully received, likewise if anyone wants any detail from the log just ask.
Wasn't sure if to post here or on "Pilots Brevet", but opted here as its quite a specific subject. However, Hello Danny if you read this! I know this was all after your time with 110 (H) but thanks for a couple of your posts in particular which told me a little about S/Ldr Sutherland.
That's all for now, thanks for reading.
Jerry.
Where did 4 years go?
Arthur was indeed with 110 (H) Squadron, his first sortie with them being in Sept 1944 flying in Vengeances from Kalyan. No operations, though it looks as though he might have expected some as there is a box for them in the logs summary pages. Some sorties in Oxfords, pilot usually F/S Hermolin. Squadron C/O was W/Cdr A.E.Saunders, O/C B. Flight S/Ldr. Vael. He had his first Mosquito sortie in Nov 1944 with F/L Wigmore from Kolar, then to Yelahanka (now in A flight, O/C S/Ldr I A Sutherland) for more Vengeance flying with F/Sgt Neate and another Mosquito sortie with F/Lt Lucas. Thence to 1672 Conversion Unit, also Yelahanka March 1945. Oxfords and Mosquitos all with F/O (soon F/Lt) Wardrop, and he flew with no one else until he left 110 (H) so I guess there was a crewing up process. Then back to 110 (H) 4/6/45 for operations. His log for June/July was signed by S/Ldr Shepherd O/C A flight for W/Cdr O/C. Sadly both Saunders and Sutherland had been lost. He flew his last op 11/7/45.
So that's the bones of it for now, conscious of the need not to go on for too long. I know a little of Saunders and Sutherland, Saunders especially was quite well known - anyone know what his O.B.E was for? But of course I would love to know a bit about his pilot, F/Lt Wardrop. I know nothing at all about him, except that from the log he certainly seems to have been a "press on" type! I formed a feeling a while ago that he might have been a Canadian, but can't remember why or find any evidence now.
Any info gratefully received, likewise if anyone wants any detail from the log just ask.
Wasn't sure if to post here or on "Pilots Brevet", but opted here as its quite a specific subject. However, Hello Danny if you read this! I know this was all after your time with 110 (H) but thanks for a couple of your posts in particular which told me a little about S/Ldr Sutherland.
That's all for now, thanks for reading.
Jerry.
Now we know we are talking about 110 Sqn, you should try for a book by Elwyn D Bell which is a potted history of 110 Sqn and published in 1972 in the week Bell was killed in a mid-air collision with a Royal Navy Sea Prince.
Elwyn Bell's book contains very good listings of individual aircraft on the unit and you ought to be able to link this with the log book.
I have been asked by his family for info about Elwyn as we served together in the Far East. I have the book but it's a case of finding it amongst more than 1000 others. If I track it down soon, I'll posts again.
Old Duffer
Elwyn Bell's book contains very good listings of individual aircraft on the unit and you ought to be able to link this with the log book.
I have been asked by his family for info about Elwyn as we served together in the Far East. I have the book but it's a case of finding it amongst more than 1000 others. If I track it down soon, I'll posts again.
Old Duffer
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jerryh99 (#10),
Sounds like my last Boss on 8 (IAF) - Sqn Ldr Ira K(?) Sutherland DFC, RNZAF. Took over in the Arakan from Sqn Ldr Prasad early Feb '44. Was stretchered out myself a fortnight later after a prang. All Vengeances pulled off 'ops' for good (Why ?)
On onset of '44 monsoon, I went up to Samungli (Quetta) with them, last saw Sutherland when I was posted down to Yelahanka 31.10.44. (to convert Mossie pilots to Vengeance ! - in case glue problem insuperable - they would then never be suitable for SE Asia).
Got there, glue fixed, out of a job till New Year's Day. In those two months nothing at Yelahanka except a Thunderbolt Conversion Unit. Sutherland must have gone over to 110 (H) on Mossies; 8 (IAF) got Spit XIVs.
My normal haunt is Military Aviation Forum ("Gaining a R.A.F. Pilots Brevet" - Yelahanka and Sutherland around page 150); ancientaviator62 pointed me here.
Pity (with the end so near). Real tough guy and fierce disciplinarian, but pity all the same.
Clearing frequency,
Danny42C.
....then to Yelahanka (now in A flight, O/C S/Ldr I A Sutherland)...
On onset of '44 monsoon, I went up to Samungli (Quetta) with them, last saw Sutherland when I was posted down to Yelahanka 31.10.44. (to convert Mossie pilots to Vengeance ! - in case glue problem insuperable - they would then never be suitable for SE Asia).
Got there, glue fixed, out of a job till New Year's Day. In those two months nothing at Yelahanka except a Thunderbolt Conversion Unit. Sutherland must have gone over to 110 (H) on Mossies; 8 (IAF) got Spit XIVs.
My normal haunt is Military Aviation Forum ("Gaining a R.A.F. Pilots Brevet" - Yelahanka and Sutherland around page 150); ancientaviator62 pointed me here.
...and Sutherland had been lost...
Clearing frequency,
Danny42C.
Thread Starter
Good morning Danny.
Yes, there is no doubt that it was the same chap. There is a bit about it on aviation-safety.net
ASN Aircraft accident 28-JUN-1945 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito FB Mk VI RF582
I have seen elsewhere copies of two letters he wrote to families of men killed under his command - they were written at length and full of detail about the men's life on the squadron (8 IAF IIRC) as well as the circumstances of their deaths, so he obviously had a caring side even if it was well hidden at times.
W/Cdr Saunders also died in an accident - disappeared without trace along with his navigator and others in a transport aircraft returning from India to Yelahanka.
One thing you might know - there are a couple of flimsy typed documents pasted into the log which appear to be intelligence reports on results of their operation. One of them is headlined "Strawberries." Any idea what that means?
O-D - thanks I will look for the book.
AA - I would be happy for this to be in pilots brevet.
Jerry.
Edited to say I have copied this across to pilots brevet in military aviation and will put subsequent posts there.
Yes, there is no doubt that it was the same chap. There is a bit about it on aviation-safety.net
ASN Aircraft accident 28-JUN-1945 de Havilland DH.98 Mosquito FB Mk VI RF582
I have seen elsewhere copies of two letters he wrote to families of men killed under his command - they were written at length and full of detail about the men's life on the squadron (8 IAF IIRC) as well as the circumstances of their deaths, so he obviously had a caring side even if it was well hidden at times.
W/Cdr Saunders also died in an accident - disappeared without trace along with his navigator and others in a transport aircraft returning from India to Yelahanka.
One thing you might know - there are a couple of flimsy typed documents pasted into the log which appear to be intelligence reports on results of their operation. One of them is headlined "Strawberries." Any idea what that means?
O-D - thanks I will look for the book.
AA - I would be happy for this to be in pilots brevet.
Jerry.
Edited to say I have copied this across to pilots brevet in military aviation and will put subsequent posts there.
Last edited by jerryh99; 30th Oct 2016 at 09:48.
This list is from Elwyn Bell's book about 110 Sqn - see above. It lists sqn aircraft over the years and the list below relates to the Mosquitos operated by the unit.
110 Sqn Mosquito Mk VI aircraft
HR292 Y
HR308 W
HR387 H & L Missing 28/4/45
HR438 A
HR446 Z
HR449 Q
HR456 G
HR498 H
HR512 R & F
HR540 B
HR546 G
HR457 G
HR548 D
HR555 R
HR556 G
HR561 T
HR562 T
HR564
HR604 A & S
HR605 A
HR620 P
HR622 J
HR625 Z
HR629 W Missing 18/4/45
HR631 S
HR637 H
RF582 K
RF586 C missing 4/5/45
RF589 P crashed 1/6/45 Mingaladon
RF594 C
RF600 K crashed on t/o 3/7/45
RF663 P
RF664 Y
RF672 V crashed in target area 12/7/45
RF673 Q
RF702 V crashed on landing 31/5/45
RF704 B
RF705 N ditched18/7/45
RF731 Z
RF954 Y
TE606
Old Duffer
110 Sqn Mosquito Mk VI aircraft
HR292 Y
HR308 W
HR387 H & L Missing 28/4/45
HR438 A
HR446 Z
HR449 Q
HR456 G
HR498 H
HR512 R & F
HR540 B
HR546 G
HR457 G
HR548 D
HR555 R
HR556 G
HR561 T
HR562 T
HR564
HR604 A & S
HR605 A
HR620 P
HR622 J
HR625 Z
HR629 W Missing 18/4/45
HR631 S
HR637 H
RF582 K
RF586 C missing 4/5/45
RF589 P crashed 1/6/45 Mingaladon
RF594 C
RF600 K crashed on t/o 3/7/45
RF663 P
RF664 Y
RF672 V crashed in target area 12/7/45
RF673 Q
RF702 V crashed on landing 31/5/45
RF704 B
RF705 N ditched18/7/45
RF731 Z
RF954 Y
TE606
Old Duffer
Thread Starter
Hello O-D,
Thanks for that. The aircraft Arthur flew ops in are all on that list and serials and squadron letters tally except that he flew two ops in HR 623 "K." Wonder what happened to that one.
I have a Corgi model of RF 594 "C" in which he flew two ops and another abandoned due to hydraulic failure in the port undercarriage. It is represented as at Don Muang in 1946 with 211 Squadron, still wearing "C."
I was wondering why no two letter Squadron markings.
Jerry.
Thanks for that. The aircraft Arthur flew ops in are all on that list and serials and squadron letters tally except that he flew two ops in HR 623 "K." Wonder what happened to that one.
I have a Corgi model of RF 594 "C" in which he flew two ops and another abandoned due to hydraulic failure in the port undercarriage. It is represented as at Don Muang in 1946 with 211 Squadron, still wearing "C."
I was wondering why no two letter Squadron markings.
Jerry.
he flew two ops in HR 623 "K." Wonder what happened to that one
HR 621 is in the Camden, NSW museum.
Model decals of HR623 available
http://www.hyperscale.com/2016/revie...reviewmd_1.htm
Thread Starter
Thanks Megan.
He also flew in HR 622, but not 621. Shame, would have been great to find an extant Mosquito he flew in. Funnily enough an old friend lives very near the Camden museum, hope to visit sometime. I understand not open at the moment but visits sometimes possible. Would be great to see the Vengeance too.
All the Dakotas he logged time in are gone too, though a couple were still flying in the 80's.
He also flew in HR 622, but not 621. Shame, would have been great to find an extant Mosquito he flew in. Funnily enough an old friend lives very near the Camden museum, hope to visit sometime. I understand not open at the moment but visits sometimes possible. Would be great to see the Vengeance too.
All the Dakotas he logged time in are gone too, though a couple were still flying in the 80's.
jerry, where and on what dates did he fly HR623? I assume India. Given the date 110 moved to India and the date it started operating the Mosquito (Nov '44) I wonder how HR623 got to be in Australia on the date quoted - 31.12.44?
Thread Starter
He flew in HR623 from Kinmagon on 4th and 6th of June 1945. I believe (ie saw on the www somewhere!) the 618 Squadron aircraft went by sea direct to Australia for planned use in highball ops. Perhaps when this plan was abandoned some of the aircraft were redeployed. But would these be FB VI?
I will probably get the Squadron Records of Events for the months of his ops to find out a little more about what the Squadron was doing while he was with them, this would also confirm the serial in the log.
I have found that his pilot , who I only had a rank and surname for, was F/Lt J.K.Wardrop, an Australian and I'm almost certain RAAF. I was pleased to find that he also survived, in fact he was home and demobbed while Arthur still had a few months of flogging around south east asia in Dakotas ahead of him.
Just looked up 618 on Wiki - they received 12 FB VI in Feb '45 to be used to maintain crew currency without risking the carrier/highball modified aircraft - probably it was one of these?
I will probably get the Squadron Records of Events for the months of his ops to find out a little more about what the Squadron was doing while he was with them, this would also confirm the serial in the log.
I have found that his pilot , who I only had a rank and surname for, was F/Lt J.K.Wardrop, an Australian and I'm almost certain RAAF. I was pleased to find that he also survived, in fact he was home and demobbed while Arthur still had a few months of flogging around south east asia in Dakotas ahead of him.
Just looked up 618 on Wiki - they received 12 FB VI in Feb '45 to be used to maintain crew currency without risking the carrier/highball modified aircraft - probably it was one of these?