British Air Attache DH Devons
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British Air Attache DH Devons
Can anyone enlighten me as to the normal operating bases for the following British Air Attache de Havilland Devon aircraft, cognisant of the fact they moved around a fair bit as part of their job:
Ankara
Baghdad
Bangkok
Belgrade
Buenos Aires
Djakarta
Malta
Manila
Mexico
Paris
Pretoria
Rangoon
Saigon (believed to be Tan Son Nhut)
Teheran
Grateful for any leads or reminiscences.
TIA
Lee
Ankara
Baghdad
Bangkok
Belgrade
Buenos Aires
Djakarta
Malta
Manila
Mexico
Paris
Pretoria
Rangoon
Saigon (believed to be Tan Son Nhut)
Teheran
Grateful for any leads or reminiscences.
TIA
Lee
Last edited by Lee Howard; 25th Apr 2012 at 21:51.
Saigon (believed to be Tan Son Nhut)
The blast-proof shelters are still there, some with holes in the roof from the NVA attack on the airfield, which was 37 years ago this week! We have a four-day long-weekend here to mark the end of the war.
The article points out that one other Devon was shared between the Air Attaches in Bangkok (Don Muang) and Jakarta (Halim).
Last edited by India Four Two; 24th Apr 2012 at 06:47. Reason: Add comment about Bangkok and Jakarta
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Thanks, yes I was aware of the site and that particular page. If anyone has anything further to add on this, or other Devon-equipped units, then I'd be interested to hear from them.
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The Devon assigned to the Air Attache at Jakarta was based at Kemayoran (Jakarta's domestic airport). I believe, but am not sure, that the aircraft was shared with the UK defence staff at the embassy in Singapore.
June1961- Jan64, VP977 based, initially, at Don Muang but (more or less monthly) visited Saigon, Pnomh Penh and Vientiane for Embassy purposes and occasional liaison visits in those countries. In late 63 we lost our Viet Nam accreditation and took over the Rangoon accreditation with the Djakarta aircraft taking over Saigon. Anything further required?
based at Kemayoran (Jakarta's domestic airport).
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Cornish Jack
Many thanks for that. Can you confirm which particular Air Attache VP977 was with at that stage? The histories of VP977 and VP978 are very muddy around this stage with Djakarta, Rangoon, Saigon and Bangkok all being mentioned.
Interestingly a date of 17 October 1965 is also mentioned often. Could this be the date on which the Vietnam accreditation was lost instead of late 1963?
Anything else you could add would be great. What was your connection?
Regards
Lee
Many thanks for that. Can you confirm which particular Air Attache VP977 was with at that stage? The histories of VP977 and VP978 are very muddy around this stage with Djakarta, Rangoon, Saigon and Bangkok all being mentioned.
Interestingly a date of 17 October 1965 is also mentioned often. Could this be the date on which the Vietnam accreditation was lost instead of late 1963?
Anything else you could add would be great. What was your connection?
Regards
Lee
Hi Lee
Re. loss of accreditation in Saigon, no, quite definitely '63 followed by a period of hiatus before we were accredited (and took the aircraft to Rangoon for a month) in December '63. AA at the period of change was G/C J W E Holmes, returned to UK as Wg Cdr Admin at Benson. His successor was G/C 'Dickie' Squires - super bloke!
My predecessor AND successor were one and the same!! slightly unusual!
Saigon's new AA was G/C Helmore who spent some time with us in BKK en route to posting and insisted on sending his reports in 'French' since "that was the language of his new post"
Dear old Chas G.., our secretary, who had to type them, was fairly underwhelmed!
While I've been typing this I decided to check rather than relying on memory and ...of course. quite wrong - it was '62 NOT '63. Last trip to Tan Son Nhut was 4/3/62 so some time after that.
Rangoon AA was G/C Chater (another gent). We flew to Mingaladon on the 30/11/63 and came back to BKK on 27/12.
Not very long after G/C Helmore took up post in Saigon there was a considerable 'local difficulty' with the Presidential Palace being bombed by his own people. AA "impressed" his crew by calling them out into the action to "see what was going on"!
This last was 2nd hand info from the guys themselves so may be slightly coloured!!
What was my connection? Sig/Nav/Pilot Assistant and general dogsbody - Lots of truly marvellous bits, some seriously bad bits but, overall, unmissable
Re. loss of accreditation in Saigon, no, quite definitely '63 followed by a period of hiatus before we were accredited (and took the aircraft to Rangoon for a month) in December '63. AA at the period of change was G/C J W E Holmes, returned to UK as Wg Cdr Admin at Benson. His successor was G/C 'Dickie' Squires - super bloke!
My predecessor AND successor were one and the same!! slightly unusual!
Saigon's new AA was G/C Helmore who spent some time with us in BKK en route to posting and insisted on sending his reports in 'French' since "that was the language of his new post"
Dear old Chas G.., our secretary, who had to type them, was fairly underwhelmed!While I've been typing this I decided to check rather than relying on memory and ...of course. quite wrong - it was '62 NOT '63. Last trip to Tan Son Nhut was 4/3/62 so some time after that.
Rangoon AA was G/C Chater (another gent). We flew to Mingaladon on the 30/11/63 and came back to BKK on 27/12.
Not very long after G/C Helmore took up post in Saigon there was a considerable 'local difficulty' with the Presidential Palace being bombed by his own people. AA "impressed" his crew by calling them out into the action to "see what was going on"!
This last was 2nd hand info from the guys themselves so may be slightly coloured!!What was my connection? Sig/Nav/Pilot Assistant and general dogsbody - Lots of truly marvellous bits, some seriously bad bits but, overall, unmissable
All in the faraway mists for me - but did AAs self-fly, or did they have an established pilot for each Devon. Never saw them abroad but as a youngster watched them in the Northolt circuit. Can hear the engine noise now - aah, nostalgia!!
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Hi Cornish Jack
Thanks for the additional information. I'm trying to nail down the precise movements of the various Devons used for a forthcoming publication. It's proving to be quite a headache, especially with the Far East aircraft.
Just to make it abundantly clear (and easier for me to see the wood for the trees), could you perhaps confirm from your logbook:
a) the aircraft serial number and the date on which you first and last flew it and with which AA (ie VP977 Saigon 21.6.61 - 4.3.62; VP978 Djakarta 1.5.62 - 17.10.65) etc?
b) who did the day to day line servicing of the aircraft? Was it a civilian company, such as Shorts, or a regional airline sub-contracted?
c) where was the major servicing done? Changi? If you flew the aircraft to/from such bases do you have the dates too?
d) how did the aircraft get to/from the UK? Self-ferried (and if so by what route), or shipped in a dismantled state to/from Singapore/Seletar?
And finally (for now!), I don't suppose you have any photographs of the aircraft taken at the time, do you?
Thanks in advance.
Lee
Thanks for the additional information. I'm trying to nail down the precise movements of the various Devons used for a forthcoming publication. It's proving to be quite a headache, especially with the Far East aircraft.
Just to make it abundantly clear (and easier for me to see the wood for the trees), could you perhaps confirm from your logbook:
a) the aircraft serial number and the date on which you first and last flew it and with which AA (ie VP977 Saigon 21.6.61 - 4.3.62; VP978 Djakarta 1.5.62 - 17.10.65) etc?
b) who did the day to day line servicing of the aircraft? Was it a civilian company, such as Shorts, or a regional airline sub-contracted?
c) where was the major servicing done? Changi? If you flew the aircraft to/from such bases do you have the dates too?
d) how did the aircraft get to/from the UK? Self-ferried (and if so by what route), or shipped in a dismantled state to/from Singapore/Seletar?
And finally (for now!), I don't suppose you have any photographs of the aircraft taken at the time, do you?
Thanks in advance.
Lee
Wander00 - All three that I flew with were self-fly as was the Djarkarta, Manilla, Rangoon (VP978?)
Lee
a) VP 977 ; first flight (for me) -18/7/61 local flying Don Muang, G/C Holmes(at that time, AA for Thailand, Viet Nam(S), Cambodia and Laos.Last flight - 15/4/64 Chiang Mai - BKK
b) During the whole of my time, F/Sgt 'Roly' Marsh, one of the few remaining 'all singing, all dancing' engineers - he looked after 'his baby' engines, airframe, electrics, etc., the lot - he had previously been on a similar job with the Heron for the Washington AA.
c) Minors and Majors at Seletar. Bit of guesswork follows - BKK- Sel on 16/2/62 return on 23/2/62 (Minor??) BKK-Sel on 26/9/62- pretty sure that was a Major since the return was on 31/10/62. In the interim, we 'borrowed' a Twin Pin and crew - TedBurlow and Jim Garlick(sp?) and enjoyed a month of 'different flying', including a demo of the TP's short field performance at Vientiane for Air America.
d) Has to be an educated guess but self-ferry I would think - no dates , I'm afraid.
Finally - photo's - not a lot but I will have a hunt around and see what I can find.
Lee
a) VP 977 ; first flight (for me) -18/7/61 local flying Don Muang, G/C Holmes(at that time, AA for Thailand, Viet Nam(S), Cambodia and Laos.Last flight - 15/4/64 Chiang Mai - BKK
b) During the whole of my time, F/Sgt 'Roly' Marsh, one of the few remaining 'all singing, all dancing' engineers - he looked after 'his baby' engines, airframe, electrics, etc., the lot - he had previously been on a similar job with the Heron for the Washington AA.
c) Minors and Majors at Seletar. Bit of guesswork follows - BKK- Sel on 16/2/62 return on 23/2/62 (Minor??) BKK-Sel on 26/9/62- pretty sure that was a Major since the return was on 31/10/62. In the interim, we 'borrowed' a Twin Pin and crew - TedBurlow and Jim Garlick(sp?) and enjoyed a month of 'different flying', including a demo of the TP's short field performance at Vientiane for Air America.
d) Has to be an educated guess but self-ferry I would think - no dates , I'm afraid.
Finally - photo's - not a lot but I will have a hunt around and see what I can find.
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CornishJack - you have a PM!
Seeing as the ball has started rolling, is there anyone else out there who flew any of the other Air Attache Devons (or Herons, for that matter)? The fact that I'm having to ask the questions sort of highlights the lack of recorded information on these units, so would be worth documenting whilst it's still possible.
Anyone?
Seeing as the ball has started rolling, is there anyone else out there who flew any of the other Air Attache Devons (or Herons, for that matter)? The fact that I'm having to ask the questions sort of highlights the lack of recorded information on these units, so would be worth documenting whilst it's still possible.
Anyone?
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INDIA FOUR TWO
I can't recall how I came to 'know' that the Jakarta Devon was based at Kemayoran. It just seems embedded in my fading memory. But there are a few clues
The Devon was used for domestic flights and domestic flights from Jakarta used Kemayoran The exceptions were those connecting with international tourists flights which used Halim (eg flights to Yogyakarta and Bali). So Kemayoran would seem to be the appropriate base.
In the early 1980's The Jakarta US Embassy (DIA) used a Beechcraft C 12 in a similar role to the Devon (ie for attaches to junket about the islands.) The C 12 was based at Kemayoran.
When the boss of 214 Sqn, Wg Cdr 'Tommy' Tucker, left in the mid 1970's to become AA in Jakarta, he had to do a Devon conversion before taking up the post (at Northern Comm Squadron?) So yes, the Jakarta Devon was self fly by the AA
Regards RC
I can't recall how I came to 'know' that the Jakarta Devon was based at Kemayoran. It just seems embedded in my fading memory. But there are a few clues
The Devon was used for domestic flights and domestic flights from Jakarta used Kemayoran The exceptions were those connecting with international tourists flights which used Halim (eg flights to Yogyakarta and Bali). So Kemayoran would seem to be the appropriate base.
In the early 1980's The Jakarta US Embassy (DIA) used a Beechcraft C 12 in a similar role to the Devon (ie for attaches to junket about the islands.) The C 12 was based at Kemayoran.
When the boss of 214 Sqn, Wg Cdr 'Tommy' Tucker, left in the mid 1970's to become AA in Jakarta, he had to do a Devon conversion before taking up the post (at Northern Comm Squadron?) So yes, the Jakarta Devon was self fly by the AA
Regards RC
Lee
Read your PM but clicking on your link crashed my 'pooter'
If I can get my limited brain cells aroung the method, I'm attaching 5 B&W shots from my time there. I've also found some colour shots but they are slides and it's going to be a major j
ob to scan them in!
Hmm - got the piccies but nadgered the text! I'll add another reply with the ID info.
Read your PM but clicking on your link crashed my 'pooter'
If I can get my limited brain cells aroung the method, I'm attaching 5 B&W shots from my time there. I've also found some colour shots but they are slides and it's going to be a major j
ob to scan them in!Hmm - got the piccies but nadgered the text! I'll add another reply with the ID info.
Last edited by Cornish Jack; 25th Apr 2012 at 20:29.
Lee
Photo 1. L-R
Roly Marsh Crew Chief and engineer, G/C Holmes (AA), Thai escort and some layabout gypsy on the earhole at the end - possibly at Korat or Ubon.
2. G/C Squires (AA) and Thai escort probably at Sattahip.
3. Tweeny Weeny Airways fleet parked in its individual spot at Don Muang.
4. Air Attache's staff and a/c at Don Muang - Roly Marsh, Chas Giles (secretary) and the hangar-on.
5. Attache's get-together at (I think) Sattahip Thai Air Force base - G/C Squires 2nd from left (as viewed)
Photo 1. L-R
Roly Marsh Crew Chief and engineer, G/C Holmes (AA), Thai escort and some layabout gypsy on the earhole at the end - possibly at Korat or Ubon.
2. G/C Squires (AA) and Thai escort probably at Sattahip.
3. Tweeny Weeny Airways fleet parked in its individual spot at Don Muang.
4. Air Attache's staff and a/c at Don Muang - Roly Marsh, Chas Giles (secretary) and the hangar-on.
5. Attache's get-together at (I think) Sattahip Thai Air Force base - G/C Squires 2nd from left (as viewed)
Pretoria is not on your list of requirements, but thought you may be interested in this.
Air Vice Marshal Sir Theodore McEvoy Assistant Chief of the Air Staff (Training) visted 5 FTS (RAF Thornhill, S. Rhodesia) some time in 1952 - 1953 and arrived in this Devon that I photographed at the time.
ISTR he flew up from Pretoria in South Africa and I assume this is the Devon used by the AA in Pretoria at the time.
Serial is not clear, but possibly WD 533?
Air Vice Marshal Sir Theodore McEvoy Assistant Chief of the Air Staff (Training) visted 5 FTS (RAF Thornhill, S. Rhodesia) some time in 1952 - 1953 and arrived in this Devon that I photographed at the time.
ISTR he flew up from Pretoria in South Africa and I assume this is the Devon used by the AA in Pretoria at the time.
Serial is not clear, but possibly WD 533?
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Warmtoast - I did indeed miss it out and shall amend my list (was doing it from memory! I also missed Baghdad!).
The serial was WB533 with UK Service Liaison at Pretoria from December 1949 until October 1961. I'll send you a PM shortly....
The serial was WB533 with UK Service Liaison at Pretoria from December 1949 until October 1961. I'll send you a PM shortly....