EE Canberra book contributor request

[BSweeper]

Fly me to the Moon - tough Nav

Options. Check Pms. The Sweep.

[Quietplease]

Canberra PNs

Hi Steve
I have my Pilots Notes for PR7 T4 and B2 if they are of any interest. Might help with some of the erroneous memories
Still remember it as a great aircraft. Used to enjoy getting back to Cyprus from Aden or Nairobi at 50,000ft and having to descend to give the poor old Hunters a chance to play. Lots of photos of 13Sqn aircraft from 58-61.
An easy aircraft to fly if you had done the Worksop assymetric course on Meteors where one had to get an overcentre geometric lock on your knee for single engine work.
The long gap between unstick and safety speed particularly at Eastleigh (5280ASL) wasn't much fun but we were young and foolish then.

[nazca_steve]

Hello Quietplease,

I would very much like to hear more on your time on 13 Sqn. One of the questions I have been repeatedly asking PR crews is about their memories regarding usage of the 1.75" photoflash and para-flares. I have heard the latter were rarely used but have heard some good anecdotes on the photoflashes. Would love to hear your experiences with these pyrotechnics, along with anything else relating to the 'experience' as it were. The Hunter example being one of them...

Pilot's Notes on the PR.7 would be great, I have the B.2, T.4, B(I).12, T.13 and TT.18 but nothing on PR birds.

I will send you a PM now with my email for any photos.

Best regards,

Steve

[nazca_steve]

Book status update

Just a quickie here: big thanks to everyone who has contributed so far and for all the other contacts that have arisen from your friends and colleagues not on here. I have been gathering lots of useful material and photos and very much appreciate your help on this book.

Steve

[options770]

B2 Pilot's Notes

I have been asked by Tangmere Aviation museum if I have Pilot's notes for the B2 to go with the cockpit I have loaned them.

Unfortunately I do not but would like to acquire a set, so if anyone has a spare set or can duplicate a set for me I would be willing to pay a reasonable amount.

Thanks

Joe

[options770]

A little trip to Cyprus

It all started on a Thursday.

A simple transit from St Mawgan to Naples. The transit wasuneventful apart from falling out of the Airway and getting vectors from FrenchAir Traffic Control because the two Navigators couldn’t agree which way to turnto regain the centre line.

As we approached Napoli the visibility was given as 5km inhaze so we elected for radar control and descended below safety altitudeavoiding Vesuvius. As we were settled at 1500ft downwind the controller said ‘Welosing power, shutting down, you go away, goodbye’. Somewhat surprised Iinitiated a climb and turn away from the volcano while we looked at ouroptions. We elected to divert to Deccimomanou our specified alternate and somefurious calculations were carried out in the back.

At this point a voice said ‘hey we back you try again?’ sowe placed ourselves in their hands for radar vectors to an offset ILS approach.The airfield is in the middle of an industrial estate, visibility was poor andthe airfield lights were not on! At 500ft he said ‘you gonna land?’ to which Ireplied that I couldn’t see the runway, his response was ‘OK you carry on’ Atdecision height I saw the runway in my 10 o’clock and with a call of ‘landing’I did a dirty dart onto the ground.

We were handled by the US Navy and the following morning ourstarter crew was a 6’ 6” matelot, the start was uneventful but then it came toclosing the door. As you are aware the door is closed from the outside, thisaircraft was just back from a major and the door was a tight fit. In order tohelp, our jolly matelot put his shoulder into it and after 30 minutes we stillhadn’t closed. We finally worked out that because of his height, as he pushedhe straightened the door and prevented it engaging, once we got him to stoopall was well. We taxied just in time to stop them cancelling our clearance. Ismiled as I held for take-off as I saw an Italian aircraft coming in from thesame position as I had the day before and performing the same dive to land.

We took off straight into a flock of birds, we didn’t appearto have a strike and all indications were normal so we set off for Cyprus. Onlanding the ground crew pointed out a smear on the nose. We had two choices:spend several hours filling in paperwork or wash it off and go to the bar…wellthere didn’t appear to be any damage.



Monday morning, crew in start-up and off to Naples. As werounded the toe of Italy I got an update of Naples weather with 2km visibility.Given the situation on the previous Thursday I elected to divert to Rome whichhad much better weather. On the approach to Ciampino it says ’avoid overflyingthe Vatican’ but it doesn’t tell you where it is! After landing Tom and Irefuelled the aircraft while Bob contacted the Air Attache at the Embassy whoorganised a hotel for us. We then had difficulty leaving the airport, it wasjoint civil/military and we were not Italian Air Force so couldn’t leavethrough that side and we were neither airline passengers nor crew. After beingsent backwards and forwards several times it got too difficult and they threwus out.

Tuesday morning we returned to the airport, I should pointout that the airliners were parked in front of the small terminal and theItalian Air Force VIP transports were on a small pad near the bar. We wereparked in the middle of a 100 yard square pan on our own like a leper. Tom wasleft to load the luggage while Bob and I went to Air Traffic to check the Metand file the flight plan. After 20 minutes we returned to the pan to be met byan armoured car and armed troops at 3 foot intervals surrounding the wholearea. It was with some trepidation and a jaunty ‘buonjourno’ that we steppedthrough the cordon to our aircraft with hundreds of pairs of eyes watching us.Tom was sitting in the cockpit reading a book and had not seen the assembly. Wedecided to carry on as normal and agreed to meet in the bar for a coffee andround up some ground crew along the way. Tom set off for the bar while Bob andI went back to Air Traffic to complete the paperwork. Fifteen minutes later wewalked back out and the guard had gone, but sitting next to our dirty grey andgreen Canberra was a big shiny bird with ‘United States of America’ emblazonedon the side. It seems that Cyrus Vance, the Secretary of State was visiting andthe guards were for him not us.

In the bar, which served alcohol as well as coffee we founda crew chief who allocated a man for our starter crew. We explained that heneeded a fire extinguisher and how to close the door. He brought a big red fireengine, but we didn’t complain. He and Tom stood out the front while we did theengine starts, he obviously was not familiar with cartridge starts because whenthe smoke cleared he was legging it away into the distance. When he realisedthat this was normal he sheepishly ambled back to position. He successfullyclosed the door and we returned to St Mawgan via Manston due to fuel and windconstraints.

[nazca_steve]

B.2 Pilot's Notes

Hi Joe,

you can download the B.2 Pilot's Notes from here if you can print them out but I can't help you with an original set I'm afraid:

(1953) A.P. 4326B-P.N. Pilots Notes Canberra B2

[Quietplease]

B2 Notes

I have my B2 notes and have contacted Tangmere to see if they are interested.
Update,they are and they will be in the post Saturday.

[Box Brownie]

Back in 1960/61 my father was stationed at the APS on the Island of Sylt in Northern Germany. At the time I was fourteen years old and those of us old enough went to boarding school at Wilhemshaven ( in the buildings of the old U-boat base, but that is another story) During the holidays we would spend much of our time in the station gym. On one occasion we saw an all black Canberra. Some years ago when a book came out about post war surveilance flights close to and over the USSR I mentioned it to dad and reminded him of the Canberra. His response was " Yes - what you didn't see because it was pushed into a hangar so quickly, were the row of bullet holes in the fin!.
I later played football for 88Sqdn, (B(I)8's) and have been working alongside the PR9 that is being made ready for flight at Kemble. If you are interest in including a bit on this restoration in your book do send a PM and I will put you in touch with the project leader

[nazca_steve]

Dear Box Brownie,

I would be very interested to talk with the project leader at Kemble and will send a PM to you now. I have been keeping what tabs I can on it (mostly following rumours) about the plans and would love to know more...especially what the condition is of that lovely old T.4 and if there are plans to get her up and running too.

Ref the all-black Canberra, this is very interesting. At first glance I thought this might have been one of the fabled Project Heart Throb RB-57A Canberras (Martin RB-57A Heart Throb) but according to the site, these sorties ended in 1956, before you were at Wilhemshaven (sounds an interesting time by the way). They were also based at Rhein Main. Do you know if this all-black bird was RAF or USAF? Bullet holes implies it was up to something risky, which makes it all the more intriguing. From the reference I have, all-black RB-57As of the 1st Tactical Reconnaisance Sqn were stationed at Spangdahlem AB in the early 60s. A bit far from you, but then again if it had taken damage nearer northern borders it could well have diverted to you.

88 Sqn - very interested to hear more on them. I am a big B(I).8 fan and this is one of my fave Sqns with its snake markings on the fin. Don't let the guys from 213 Sqn hear me say that!

PM coming over now.

[Box Brownie]

Thanks Steve. Sadly dad is no longer with us so I can't elicit any more information. I was always under the impression that it was one of ours. I remember him saying that they were only cleared to land on certain airfields and Sylt wasn't one of them.

Re the T4, that is at Coventry with the Classic Flight and I believe will not fly again.

Work on the PR9 at Kemble is progressing well.
Somewhere in the loft is an air to air photo of an 88Sqdn Canberra. If I can find it a copy will get to you.

[options770]

Thanks Steve, downloaded

[Quietplease]

Crosswind limits

Where did these crosswind limits come from? PNs for PR7 & T4 say in paras 106 and 108 - "A crosswind landing presents no special difficulty, and the crab technique is recommended. If the crosswind is gusting strongly increase the threshold speed by 5 to 10 knots."
No point in having a limit when one usually had no alternate and barely fuel for a go-around.
The one really vital limitation was the pilot thigh length not to exceed 26.5"!
Kneecaps left on coaming.

[nazca_steve]

Box, this is very interesting if it was one of ours. There were only a couple of all-black Brit Canberras that I know of, so this makes for a very intriguing plot. A shame your Dad is not with us anymore, but perhaps we can do some collective digging on it, here and elsewhere.

The T.4, sorry I forgot it was with Classic Flight not Kemble. And a shame it may not take to the air again.

Would love to see that 88 Sqn Can...I have an old model kit of one on my desk and have a definite soft spot for it.

Options 770, glad to have been of service. If you ever need any others I have some on PDF and have a friend who has practically the entire Canberra AP library and could scan them for you.

[crabro]

B(I)6 STORIES

Hi Steve,

I am replying to your request for B(I)6 tales which I saw on the 213Sqn website. I have a numbe rof anecdotes and a few photos if they would be of any use. I was a pilot on the Sqn in the late '60s

Crabro

[nazca_steve]

Hello Crabro,

thanks for getting in touch and I am glad my request on the 213 Sqn site is working. Between that and word of mouth referrals I am getting some good coverage from 213 now. I would love to hear your anecdotes and of course the photos too; I will send you a PM now with my email, but posting on here is fine as well for the stories - whatever you prefer.

Steve

[nazca_steve]

Options 770,

priceless story by the way on your Italian adventures. Funnily enough I was contacted recently by an ex-USAF Sgt would told me of a similar story involving the fire guard dumping a load of foam into the intake during a B-57A startup...as you may know, theirs made even more cart smoke than the Avon. From what I've read this was not uncommon in the early days of the US Canberra.

[Warmtoast]

Hi Steve

Not sure if these are of interest, but fairly unique as it shows the aircraft that did a survey mission and the resultant survey photos.


R.A.F. Gan— 58 Sqn Canberra PR7 WJ815 - 12 March 1958

In 1958 Iwas stationed at R.A.F. Gan and took a photo of the first jet to visit Gan (it didn’t land because it was on a on a photo-survey mission and the then crushed coral runway was too short for a landing.

As I recorded in my notes “On 12 March 1958 a 58 Sqn (RAF Wyton) Canberra PR7 temporarily based in Singapore and detached to RAF Negombo (Ceylon) took survey photos of Addu Atoll (Sortie 58A 604 of 12 March 1958, aircraft WJ815, pilot F/O Mudge, navigator F/O Lister). The survey runs were flown at 9,000ft and following the final survey run we asked the pilot to do a low fly-by, this photo records the event.”

It was low enough to see the oblique camera ports on the starboard side of the aircraft. The mission report stated that one camera was U/S.

In February 2004 in connection with the R.A.F. Gan Reunion that was held later that year at R.A.F. Odiham, and with the permission of the MOD I was supplied with prints of this sortie. In giving me prints of the survey the MOD stipulated that if they were to be posted or published anywhere they should be annotated “Source: © CrownCopyright/MoD” which I’ve done.




"© Crown Copyright/MOD"




Original Tented Domestic Site - Close-up
12 March 1958. The original tented site. Tents are visible (slightly right of centre). The original WW2 short jetty and the channel blasted through the coral reef can be seen. Concrete laying machines are in action and are visible on the right of the new hardstanding. "© Crown Copyright/MOD"



RAF Gan - New Domestic Site
12 March 1958. On the left the beginnings of the new domestic site take shape. The new jetty extending to the edge of the reef is visible (left) as is (far right) the original very short WW2 jetty. "© Crown Copyright/MOD"



Signals & ATC Close-up
12 March 1958. ATC, H/F radio vehicles (used by W/Ops) and cypher truck are bottom right. Aircraft parking area and four SASF/ Stores tents are at bottom centre. To the left and slightly above these are H/F and VHF transmitter vehicles and generator truck. The VHF D/F vehicle in which I worked is the white-roofed object towards the top of the track on the left. Power was supplied from the generator truck along a long mains lead. For use in emergencies (when no mains power was available) the VHF/DF vehicle had its own 4-channel VHF TR1143 transceiver (as used in aircraft) that ran off 24 volt batteries charged by a stand-by petrol generator. "© Crown Copyright/MOD"

[Quietplease]

PR7 and pyros

We weren't equipped for night photo on 13Sqn in my time (58-61).
In late 60 we ferried our unmodded a/c back to Marshalls at Cambridge (where I learnt to fly gliders as a youth). They did the night photo mod. We would pick up a modded a/c, take to it Wildenrath and then take one of theirs back to Akrotiri.

[crabro]

Hi Steve, I would prefer to chat via email if you don't mind. I am new to PPrune and don't know exactly what a "PM" is - private message perhaps?? Anyway if you would send your email address to me I will respond.
Cheers
Crabro